JESUS IS NOT GOD DEBATE

PostmodernProphet said:
that sort of assumes it was the intended message.....another alternative is that the essential message is the one that 3 billion Christians got.....
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I don't mean this to be disrespectful, but that message DID filter through the medieval church (the same guys who brought us the "earth at the center of the universe" idea)...
 
Thing1 said:
I don't mean this to be disrespectful, but that message DID filter through the medieval church (the same guys who brought us the "earth at the center of the universe" idea)...
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and do you also think the "essential message" of the Bible is we are all God?........maybe you aren't disrespectful, but like wise, you are delusional....
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
But according to some liberals, on this very forum, if you're not condemning it, then it means you're condoning it.
That's just the way it is. :palm:
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Well, I disagree with them then.

You love to assume that I agree with all liberals and every facet of liberalism, FLASE.
 
wiseones2cents said:
Doesn't mean the council of Nicaea was correct. It just means Constantine sided with the Trinitarians and oppressed the Arians. That certainly did not spell the end to Arianism. One of the other Emperors believed in Arianism. Many of the early Church leaders were Arianism.
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Arianism did not hold that Jesus was not God, it just held that God created the Son of God and that he held a subordinate position to him in the trinity. This is, confusingly, not considered "Trinitarianism" because it's not the classical belief that all three are totally coequal entities, but neither is it Unitarianism, where Jesus was just a normal man.

wiseones2cents said:
Therefore in conclusion, the only reason the trinity doctrine became official is because it was backed by the Emperor AND the fact that Arians were persecuted and Arian books were burned. That's not true Christianity, that is dictatorship. You had to believe what they told you believe or there would be sever consequences.
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Dictatorship and Christianity are not mutually exclusive.
 
wiseones2cents said:
The Bible CLEARLY states that Jesus was mortal THOUGH had GOD's Spirit abiding in Him. No Apostle states Jesus is GOD. There is that time with Thomas Saying My Lord and My GOD, THOUGH it's a far stretch to suggest Thomas thought He was GOD. None of the other Apostles even hinted to it. They all believed Him to be SENT by GOD< Son of GOD.

The Trinity doctrine was established through force. You must believe what we say or else.
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The three coequal entities version of Christianity was the most popular doctrine. It's not like it somehow didn't exist or wouldn't have dominated otherwise without Constatine's blessing. You have a childlike theology, you think that your 5 minutes of basic research on Wikipedia countermands 2000 years of Christian tradition. You keep on demonstrating time and time again that you have only a limited grasp of the history of this era, but you still think that you have every right to totally deny and rework the basic doctrines about it. I'm not a Christian, but this is just idiocy.
 
wiseones2cents said:
Exactly. Does that mean we are all 100% GOD too? NO!



very good.
1 John 4:15-16 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 16 We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.




Exactly. Church doctrine was not only warped to reflect certain pagan beliefs, it was warped to serve the Elitist beliefs/interests.

Again, most of the MAIN early Church leaders were ARIAN! Even the ones that put together the Bible.
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The canon of the bible was put together during the Synod of Hippo, 397, long after the Council of Nicaea. Why would the Trinitarian empire allow Arians to put together their canon?

Arianism was never a majority doctrine. It does not hold that Jesus was not God. You are an idiot. These are all facts.
 
wiseones2cents said:
More nonsense talk!!!lol

Notice I AM in the Bible(which means to exist or have existed) in HEBREW! It has to do with ancestral worship, but that is another discussion.

The Tetragrammaton stands for KING of KING(s). In this case a tribal warlord. In those days there were many King of Kings.

When Jesus used the supposed "I AM" it meant he stated He EXISTED before Moses. Not that He was GOD. But the deceivers like to reach and make things in the bible out of nothing. Saying it was foretold.lol
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There were not many King of Kings, it was a pretty high level title. I'm really unaware of anyone besides rulers who had conquered all of ancient Mesopotamia (Babylonians, Persians, etc...) use it. Using it as a title of God would be fairly unsurprising, the entire concept being to grant to God all the highest level concepts. It also makes sense because Jews were a Semitic culture, associated with the other cultures of the area.

Your theory that the old testament is talking about a variety of unrelated tribal warlords when it refers to "God" is just stupid beyond words. Just go into the bible, and start replacing any reference to God with "(the specific tribal warlord being referenced to in this book)". It doesn't make any sense. Why does David, king of Israel, pay respects to someone else? Is Israel not independent or something? Why does he have some sort of direct line to him - if this were the distant ruler of some greater realm which included Israel, he would rarely be expected to talk to David at all. And the book of Genesis, yeah, in the beginning, some tribal warlord created the heavens and the earth. That makes so much sense.
 
wiseones2cents said:
These idiot apologetic theologians have had centuries to try to cover up all the inconsistencies and contradictions in the Bible to maintain the lie that Scripture is infallible. Only their followers who are super brainwashed and blind of faith can believe their crap. If you ask a TRUE Bible scholar. They will tell you right away, that the Bible IS NOT infallible. In fact it is very fallible.
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The idea that the scripture is infallible is a fundamentalist protestant doctrine. Catholics do not hold to it.
 
wiseones2cents said:
It's not possible! GOD CANNOT have two separate wills! Every being only has ONE will. His/her will can be influenced by other wills, though they only have ONE WILL! Again, address the Scripture I presented!
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So it's illogical, it would hardly be the most illogical idea present in Christianity.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
I expect, unless you find another example of a deity incarnating as a human, you won't see another example......the scripture is accurate.....Jesus will WAS separate from that of the Father.....it had to be, or there was no reason to bother with an incarnation.....

God had a will....he was not a human.....he incarnated as a human and in that person had free will....the ability to obey or disobey....it is true his will could be influenced.....even Satan realized that when he tried to tempt him.....but he did not choose disobedience, even when the result was the cross......in making that choice his will paralleled that of the Father, but it remained his choice.....
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Oh man, go back up to heaven, what a hard choice. Jesus gave up his short term presence in this shitty world for nothing but a return to a blissful eternity in heaven! What a sacrifice! Surely no one in the world has given up more!
 
wiseones2cents said:
IDIOT ALERT!!!!! If I make a copy of me and he has a different will? Guess what? He's not me.lol He make look like me but he's not me. :)



How can GOD disobey himself?lol Why would he want to? HE's all knowing! HE cant make a wrong Judgment. Yet Moses had to convince "GOD" to spare the Israelites? The god of the jews doesn't sound all knowing.lol

If Jesus is GOD and satan knows GOD, why would satan offer something to GOD, that HE already owns?lol Makes no sense.

Sorry but none of your nonsense adds up. If Jesus was GOD He wouldn't have felt fear, but He did and the Angels had to come and encourage(Lift up His Spirit) Him.
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Vishnu incarnated, had several human forms. Jesus is not the only god incarnate.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
/shrugs....no, you've said my beliefs are.....your arguments really suck, however.....
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I've proved your beliefs are in error using multiple scriptures and logic. All you presented was 2-3 verses used out of context and mis-interpreted! Heck the Jehovah witnesses can show you verse to support their believe Jesus is archangel Michael.lol
 
Tyrion the Imp said:
The idea that the scripture is infallible is a fundamentalist protestant doctrine. Catholics do not hold to it.
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1/2 true. Yes in the sense that the Catholic Church has been around longer and they KNOW there were too many contradictions to keep supporting infallibility, but then they went one further and stated that the Pope is infallible. Another thing that is bullshit.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
I delete the parts where you call me an idiot....I feel it leaves you in a better light if I don't accentuate your insults.....again you misquote (is that intentional?)......its firstborn OVER creation
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OMG! This guy is in denial! I usual call people idiots when they first a) show arrogance b) are completely clueless and insist they are smarter.lol

The point is that He was firstBORN! If He was BORN that would indicate there was a time He never existed. How many times do I have to repeat myself? And your nonsense about this meaning his mortal birth, that's nonsense. It clearly states He was born prior to creation.
 
Sardonic said:
Vishnu incarnated, had several human forms. Jesus is not the only god incarnate.
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The beginning of all religion seems to have two roots. 1) MAYBE extraterrestrial or 2) It came from leadership worship that evolved into ancestral worship, even after they died. Their kin was the re-incarnation of them and had their right of heir.

Note none of these support a supreme creator of the universe re-incarnating himself in the flesh.
 
Tyrion the Imp said:
Oh man, go back up to heaven, what a hard choice. Jesus gave up his short term presence in this shitty world for nothing but a return to a blissful eternity in heaven! What a sacrifice! Surely no one in the world has given up more!
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Some say Jesus's revolution against the corrupted powers has failed thus far......Why? That corrupt power has managed to infiltrate and corrupt the hierarchies(leadership) of Christianity.
 
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