JESUS IS NOT GOD DEBATE

Threedee said:
The Apostles all believed that Christ is God as well as man. I suppose the signature event, prior to the Resurrection, was the Transfiguration. As to the full nature of Christ, that obviously continued to be debated for some time, although not by any of the Apostles and their successors. Interestingly enough, the Trinity is not mentioned in the Bible, but can only be discerned. The Church has always believed in it, and so it remains one of those "unbiblical" items of faith that protestants hold because they were 1.5 millenia late in breaking off, and thus have had to accept things the Church instituted, such as the canonical Bible (minus 7 OT books).
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The Bible CLEARLY states that Jesus was mortal THOUGH had GOD's Spirit abiding in Him. No Apostle states Jesus is GOD. There is that time with Thomas Saying My Lord and My GOD, THOUGH it's a far stretch to suggest Thomas thought He was GOD. None of the other Apostles even hinted to it. They all believed Him to be SENT by GOD< Son of GOD.

The Trinity doctrine was established through force. You must believe what we say or else.
 
wiseones2cents said:
The Bible CLEARLY states that Jesus was mortal THOUGH had GOD's Spirit abiding in Him. No Apostle states Jesus is GOD. There is that time with Thomas Saying My Lord and My GOD, THOUGH it's a far stretch to suggest Thomas thought He was GOD. None of the other Apostles even hinted to it. They all believed Him to be SENT by GOD< Son of GOD.

The Trinity doctrine was established through force. You must believe what we say or else.
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Jesus, like all of us, was mortal. Jesus, like all of us, has God's spirit abiding in him.

We are all sons of God. We all have the power of a direct relationship with the God that is in us.

The Church was intended to teach this, instead it became corrupt and began to teach that through the Church we could have a relationship with God. In order to do that they had to corrupt the story of Jesus by making him something better and more than what we are... but the message was clear, we all have what Jesus had, we all have a direct relationship with God.
 
Jarod said:
Jesus, like all of us, was mortal. Jesus, like all of us, has God's spirit abiding in him.
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Exactly. Does that mean we are all 100% GOD too? NO!

We are all sons of God. We all have the power of a direct relationship with the God that is in us.
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very good.
1 John 4:15-16 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 16 We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.


The Church was intended to teach this, instead it became corrupt and began to teach that through the Church we could have a relationship with God. In order to do that they had to corrupt the story of Jesus by making him something better and more than what we are... but the message was clear, we all have what Jesus had, we all have a direct relationship with God.
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Exactly. Church doctrine was not only warped to reflect certain pagan beliefs, it was warped to serve the Elitist beliefs/interests.

Again, most of the MAIN early Church leaders were ARIAN! Even the ones that put together the Bible.
 
wiseones2cents said:
How could separate entities of the same person have different wills. Sorry but that bullshit is only for the naïve followers.
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that's a softball.....God became incarnate to serve as a sacrifice for humanity......we sinned in the exercise of our free will.....the sacrifice obviously would have to have free will to exercise in order to atone for our disobedience....(if he had no ability to make a choice, how could it be atonement?).....
 
wiseones2cents said:
This "I AM" thing has been blown out of proportion! It just means He existed(somehow) before Abraham. He never claimed to be GOD, just the Son of GOD.
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incorrect....."I am" was the name of God....there reason there is a tetragrammaton is that the Hebrews never used the words "I am" in speech for fear of taking the name of God in vain......you may believe it was "out of proportion" but those of his contemporaries who heard him say it were prepared to stone him to death for his blasphemy.....he did, without question, claim to be God.....
 
PostmodernProphet said:
that's a softball.....God became incarnate to serve as a sacrifice for humanity......we sinned in the exercise of our free will.....the sacrifice obviously would have to have free will to exercise in order to atone for our disobedience....(if he had no ability to make a choice, how could it be atonement?).....
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A softball? That softball must have hit you in the head. Because your reply is incoherent. it doesn't explain why Jesus and GOD had separate wills. Also I noticed you did not explain the verses I supplied. Why is that? :)
 
wiseones2cents said:
Can you explain this verse? The firstborn of the dead?

Revelations 1:5-6 5and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood--
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do you mean
5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.
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http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+1

he was the first to rise from death.....
 
wiseones2cents said:
A softball? That softball must have hit you in the head. Because your reply is incoherent. it doesn't explain why Jesus and GOD had separate wills. Also I noticed you did not explain the verses I supplied. Why is that? :)
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Its the standard text book answer...
 
wiseones2cents said:
How about this one. First born of all creation? Sounds like Jesus was CREATED!

Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
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again, a misquote.....it isn't the first born of creation, its the firstborn over all creation....and the verse goes on to say
16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
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https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Colossians%201
note particularly the part about all the fullness of God dwelling in him......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
incorrect....."I am" was the name of God....there reason there is a tetragrammaton is that the Hebrews never used the words "I am" in speech for fear of taking the name of God in vain......you may believe it was "out of proportion" but those of his contemporaries who heard him say it were prepared to stone him to death for his blasphemy.....he did, without question, claim to be God.....
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More nonsense talk!!!lol

Notice I AM in the Bible(which means to exist or have existed) in HEBREW! It has to do with ancestral worship, but that is another discussion.

The Tetragrammaton stands for KING of KING(s). In this case a tribal warlord. In those days there were many King of Kings.

When Jesus used the supposed "I AM" it meant he stated He EXISTED before Moses. Not that He was GOD. But the deceivers like to reach and make things in the bible out of nothing. Saying it was foretold.lol
 
wiseones2cents said:
A softball? That softball must have hit you in the head. Because your reply is incoherent. it doesn't explain why Jesus and GOD had separate wills. Also I noticed you did not explain the verses I supplied. Why is that? :)
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whats to explain...they state his will differed from that of God.....you made the claim that this was not possible.....I pointed out that it was not only possible but necessary.....the problem wasn't in the verses, it was in your claim of impossibility.....
 
Jarod said:
Its the standard text book answer...
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These idiot apologetic theologians have had centuries to try to cover up all the inconsistencies and contradictions in the Bible to maintain the lie that Scripture is infallible. Only their followers who are super brainwashed and blind of faith can believe their crap. If you ask a TRUE Bible scholar. They will tell you right away, that the Bible IS NOT infallible. In fact it is very fallible.
 
wiseones2cents said:
More nonsense talk!!!lol

Notice I AM in the Bible(which means to exist or have existed) in HEBREW! It has to do with ancestral worship, but that is another discussion.

The Tetragrammaton stands for KING of KING(s). In this case a tribal warlord. In those days there were many King of Kings.

When Jesus used the supposed "I AM" it meant he stated He EXISTED before Moses. Not that He was GOD. But the deceivers like to reach and make things in the bible out of nothing. Saying it was foretold.lol
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the fact you deny it simply doesn't change theology.....
 
PostmodernProphet said:
whats to explain...they state his will differed from that of God.....you made the claim that this was not possible.....I pointed out that it was not only possible but necessary.....the problem wasn't in the verses, it was in your claim of impossibility.....
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It's not possible! GOD CANNOT have two separate wills! Every being only has ONE will. His/her will can be influenced by other wills, though they only have ONE WILL! Again, address the Scripture I presented!
 
wiseones2cents said:
These idiot apologetic theologians have had centuries to try to cover up all the inconsistencies and contradictions in the Bible to maintain the lie that Scripture is infallible. Only their followers who are super brainwashed and blind of faith can believe their crap. If you ask a TRUE Bible scholar. They will tell you right away, that the Bible IS NOT infallible. In fact it is very fallible.
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so far, less fallible than your arguments......
 
If you want atheism to be legal... you are promoting it.... according to your logic!
 
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