Higher education is about more than job training: Open

[Walt]

Then there is Bill Gates (founder of Microsoft), a college dropout. Same with Steve Balmer, Steve Jobs (who founded Apple and was a cofounder of Pixar).

Gates and Jobs both fell back on their college educations, even though they did not complete them. Ballmer was not a college dropout, as you claim. He graduated from Harvard magna cum laude with a Bachelor of Arts(basically a liberal arts degree) in mathematics and economics. Ballmer did dropout of the Stanford MBA program, but he first got his liberal arts degree.

Steve Wozniak was expelled from University of Colorado his first year, but in his thirties went back to school to get his degree.

 

[Into the Night]

That is completely false.

Blatant lie. Now go cook that hamburger.

A liberal arts education is a generalist education that allows people to work in many different fields,

It doesn't 'allow' anything.

not just the fields that the government thinks exist at the beginning.

The government has nothing to do with it, other than funding this shit.

The most important skills it teaches is reading, writing, and researching.

You flunk. Your reading comprehension is terrible, you have poor grammar and misspell words, and you don't know the meanings of words, and you don't research anything.

I do have to admit it has been falling short in mathematics, but it does teach some mathematics.

You deny mathematics and science as well.

There is a reason so many jobs now require a bachelors degree, or at least some college.

Compositional error fallacy. You cannot consider a liberal arts college to be any other kind of degree.

Reed College taught a class in the arcane art of designing fonts for manual printing presses. A young man named Steve Jobs took the course, and internalized it. Much of a trillion dollar company, and a ten trillion dollar industry is based on that random event. Go ahead tell us how much smarter you are than diversity, and how you can predict a billion people's career plans in some sort of bizarre central planning, WE ALL KNOW YOU ARE WRONG!!!

Steve Jobs never graduated from Reed College.
Steve Jobs never based any company on fonts.
What do you mean by 'manual printing press'? Buzzword fallacy.

 

[Into the Night]

At Reed College the second most popular major is Biology, the third most popular major is Mathematics, the fourth most popular major is Physics.... While not applied, these are extremely useful STEM majors.

You don't know any of them.

 

[Into the Night]

It absolutely boggles the mind that you did not know there are electives in liberal arts colleges. I am serious. Of the thousands of demented posts you have posted, this one takes the cake.



Have you ever been to a college?

There are no electives at a liberal arts college. I must assume you have no idea what one is.

 

[Into the Night]

Bill Gates felt he had learned a huge amount at Harvard.

Harvard doesn't teach programming or computers.

 

[Into the Night]

Bill Gates felt he had learned a huge amount at Harvard.

He's a dropout, Sock.

 

[Into the Night]

Gates and Jobs both fell back on their college educations, even though they did not complete them.

Nope. Harvard does not teach programming or computers.

Ballmer was not a college dropout, as you claim. He graduated from Harvard magna cum laude with a Bachelor of Arts(basically a liberal arts degree) in mathematics and economics. Ballmer did dropout of the Stanford MBA program, but he first got his liberal arts degree.

Not a liberal arts degree. Ballmer never used his degree for anything except a job at Procter and Gamble.

Steve Wozniak was expelled from University of Colorado his first year, but in his thirties went back to school to get his degree.

AFTER he became rich at Apple.

Now you seem to conflate that all degrees are liberal arts degrees. You're being an idiot.

 

[cawacko]

There is an element of irony for those saying education is more than just job training at a rich kids school that costs $83K/yr all-in. I'm sure there are kids who receive grants and scholarship money so not everyone is paying the face rate, but nonetheless Reed isn't exactly the kind of school full of working and middle class kids. A lot easier to make a statement like that when you come from a family with that type of money (or are an administrator and your students largely come from the wealthy).

 

[Walt]

You flunk. Your reading comprehension is terrible, you have poor grammar and misspell words, and you don't know the meanings of words, and you don't research anything.

I did not get a liberal arts education. I was Computer Engineering.

You cannot consider a liberal arts college to be any other kind of degree.

I can, and society can.

Steve Jobs never graduated from Reed College.
Steve Jobs never based any company on fonts.
What do you mean by 'manual printing press'? Buzzword fallacy.

Jobs got a good liberal arts education from Reed, even though he did not have the money to finish that education. Apple was based on doing more than just block printing characters. It is the details like fonts that made Apple what it is. One character can overhang another, which is a detail that only someone who is really into fonts would care about.

You do not know what a manual printing press is?

 

[Walt]

There are no electives at a liberal arts college. I must assume you have no idea what one is.

Liberal arts has a huge amount of electives. I really do not know why you would deny that.

 

[Walt]

Harvard doesn't teach programming or computers.

9% of Harvard graduates in 2022 had computer science majors. Back in 1970's Gates got into trouble for using a Harvard computer for personal business. It was supposed to be used for teaching computer technology to Harvard students.

The education Gates got from Harvard went well beyond computer programming.

 

[cawacko]

Yeah, documenting as a fact that a college education pays more in the end is real “stupid”

And now we should see something like “facts aren’t facts,” or a similar Rudiism

Generally speak, yes - college is 100% the way to go. BUT everyone has their own path and journey.

This board is dominated by Boomers. If you went to public school you probably paid very little relatively speaking when you were there. Not the case today. You have kids coming out of school tens, even hundreds, of thousands in debt with degrees that offer little real world value and get jobs that don't pay all that much (while having to pay off that massive debt). Compare that to someone who goes to trade school or gets some certificate or something but has no debt and can earn decent to good money. They may come out ahead.

Anecdotal but very relevant. I speak with 'SC alums who say they don't think the value of the 'SC degree today is worth the $85K/yr. Not everyone who goes to 'SC becomes rich and can cut a check for $85K on an annual basis so that definitely plays a role. And depending on the year we're talking about a school ranked in the top 25 in the country academically.

Something is going to have to give because the ROI as prices continue to increase like they are isn't always going to be there.

 

[Flash]

Harvard doesn't teach programming or computers.

Harvard Degrees Granted in computer science:
Bachelor's Degrees: 138
Master's: 35
PhD's: 14

Median Salary of Harvard Bachelor's degrees in computer science is $140,000. The national average is $63,000.

The information that Harvard does not teach computer science must have come from the same source that said liberal arts schools do not have electives.

 

[Walt]

Harvard Degrees Granted in computer science:
Bachelor's Degrees: 138
Master's: 35
PhD's: 14

Median Salary of Harvard Bachelor's degrees in computer science is $140,000. The national average is $63,000.

The information that Harvard does not teach computer science must have come from the same source that said liberal arts schools do not have electives.

The alt right just makes up random lies.

 

[Into the Night]

I did not get a liberal arts education. I was Computer Engineering.

I don't believe you. You have already shown you know nothing about computers or programming, and you deny logic.

I can, and society can.

You don't get to speak for everyone, Sock. Omniscience fallacy.

Jobs got a good liberal arts education from Reed, even though he did not have the money to finish that education. Apple was based on doing more than just block printing characters. It is the details like fonts that made Apple what it is. One character can overhang another, which is a detail that only someone who is really into fonts would care about.

Jobs didn't create a company that created fonts. Don't try to sound smart, you only look dumber, Sock.

You do not know what a manual printing press is?

Apparently you can't or won't define it. Buzzword fallacy.

 

[Into the Night]

Liberal arts has a huge amount of electives. I really do not know why you would deny that.

No electives. You obviously have no idea what a liberal arts school even IS.

 

[Into the Night]

9% of Harvard graduates in 2022 had computer science majors.

Meh.

Back in 1970's Gates got into trouble for using a Harvard computer for personal business. It was supposed to be used for teaching computer technology to Harvard students.

The education Gates got from Harvard went well beyond computer programming.

Bill Gates is a college dropout and a terrible programmer. I've seen his code.

 

[Into the Night]

Generally speak, yes - college is 100% the way to go. BUT everyone has their own path and journey.

This board is dominated by Boomers. If you went to public school you probably paid very little relatively speaking when you were there. Not the case today. You have kids coming out of school tens, even hundreds, of thousands in debt with degrees that offer little real world value and get jobs that don't pay all that much (while having to pay off that massive debt). Compare that to someone who goes to trade school or gets some certificate or something but has no debt and can earn decent to good money. They may come out ahead.

Anecdotal but very relevant. I speak with 'SC alums who say they don't think the value of the 'SC degree today is worth the $85K/yr. Not everyone who goes to 'SC becomes rich and can cut a check for $85K on an annual basis so that definitely plays a role. And depending on the year we're talking about a school ranked in the top 25 in the country academically.

Something is going to have to give because the ROI as prices continue to increase like they are isn't always going to be there.

A reasonable argument, but you do not need college to be successful. All you really need is initiative. That's the nature of capitalism.

 

[Into the Night]

Harvard Degrees Granted in computer science:
Bachelor's Degrees: 138
Master's: 35
PhD's: 14

Median Salary of Harvard Bachelor's degrees in computer science is $140,000. The national average is $63,000.

The information that Harvard does not teach computer science must have come from the same source that said liberal arts schools do not have electives.

Heh. I make more than that!
You obviously still have no idea what a liberal arts school IS.

 

[Into the Night]

The alt right just makes up random lies.

You are describing yourself again, Sock. You cannot blame YOUR problems on anybody else. There is no such thing as 'alt right' except as a religious artifact.