Uncle Martin Would Have Been So Proud...

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

I listened to it early this morning and enjoyed it.

But you said, "We're talking about the opposite, religion participating in government!".

Exactly what are you advocating there?

Exactly what Dr. King said! That's what I am advocating!

I think it starts by putting down this idiotic notion coming from atheist communists who want to destroy our nation, and re-embracing our founding principle.

 

[WinterBorn]

I listened to it early this morning and enjoyed it.

But you said, "We're talking about the opposite, religion participating in government!".

Exactly what are you advocating there?[/QUOTE]

To see godly men and women in office? To pray for wisdom amongst our leaders? These were common ideas not so long ago. Freedom of religion is not equal to no religion. To protect the idividual right to worship or not worship as one sees fit is the only true biblical precept. A mans conscience must be free. That said a quick pervue of founding writings and even within our documents it is easy to see a religious idealism.

How is it that you can't seem to understand what is in view?

I have no problem seeing what is in view?

I am asking what is supposed to change in order for this to have been a success?

On these very forums you can find threads in which people advocate using religion to restrict freedoms. You can find posts calling AIDs God's way of killing homosexuals. Posts proclaiming that all muslims are terrorists and that they want to kill us.

I am asking what Dixie (because the discussion was with him, but anyone will do) is wanting to happen.

We have not had a president that was not a member of a church. But we continually have politicians that lie, cheat, and steal. In fact, it has become almost expected that politicians lie. That is far from "Godly" im my opinion.

 

[WinterBorn]

Exactly what Dr. King said! That's what I am advocating!

I think it starts by putting down this idiotic notion coming from atheist communists who want to destroy our nation, and re-embracing our founding principle.

So nothing in your own words? That is odd. Usually you are quick to type hundreds of words.

 

[Canceled2]

And the Muslims should be free to have a house of worship on land that they own and where any other religen would be allowed to do so.

The red herring argument. The controversey is an islamic mosque at this site. EVERYONE understands the legal right to build it there...it's about propriety. The people aganist the mosque at this site is one of good taste VS bad taste.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

So nothing in your own words? That is odd. Usually you are quick to type hundreds of words.

So you're saying you listened to Dr. King's speech and didn't gain anything? She didn't bring anything to the table, she just muttered a bunch of words that meant nothing to you, is that what you are saying?

 

[Jarod]

The red herring argument. The controversey is an islamic mosque at this site. EVERYONE understands the legal right to build it there...it's about propriety. The people aganist the mosque at this site is one of good taste VS bad taste.

Sure, so other than supporting the Constitution, government officials should stay out of it!

 

[WinterBorn]

So you're saying you listened to Dr. King's speech and didn't gain anything? She didn't bring anything to the table, she just muttered a bunch of words that meant nothing to you, is that what you are saying?

That is not wh i am aying. I was asking you a very simple question, which you have refused to answer.

In her speech she says we can tell when the check "Uncle Martin" talked about is good when prayer is returned to public schools. Do you advocate prayers in public schools? And lets be clear, no one is talking about whether a student is allowed to pray alone and quietly in schools, but prayers led by the school faculty.

Dr. A. King spoke out against abortion several times. That is another discussion entirely.

She also said we will know the check is good when our children are safe from crimes in the street. No argument from anyone that we want less crime, especially against children.

She advocates turning from what she calls "moral turpitude". Which begs the question, what sort of changes in morality does she advocate?

And she said she has a dream that "white privilege will become human privilege".



So what profound and earthshaking changes did she advocate? And what changes do youwant to have come from Glenn Beck's weekend prayer session?

 

[Cypress]

Alveeda King is a religious conservative crack pot aligned with the socially conservative rightwing, and is anti-gay, and anti-reproductive choice. She shares some DNA with Dr. King, but she doesn't speak for him.

MLK was not aligned with a political party, and indeed he was to the left of the vast majority of Democrats. Labels don't mean crap, but MLK was basically a socialist, if any label can be applied to him.


On the other hand, its hilarious to see a bunch of over weight white tea bag people on the DC Mall trying to "reclaim" the civil rights movement. It doesn't get any funnier than that!

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

The same reason this thread will get no response.

 

[Jarod]

ROTFLMAO

 

[Socrtease]

Goddammit, it doesn't matter that the DoI has no legal standing, goofball! It's STILL the basis and foundational premise of our nation! Yes, the 1st Amendment basically guarantees you will never live in a theocracy, it's fucking impossible! This was important because it enables us to establish a nation based on the founding principle of all men being created equal and endowed with inalienable rights! Why can't you GET that? What part of it are you having trouble understanding? It wasn't about constructing a wall AROUND government to prevent ANY religious influence whatsoever, it was about establishing a government which could recognize and respect ALL RELIGIOUS BELIEFS!

Every bit of this is correct in theory. But when put into practice it has fallen short of our goals. Just a few years ago there was a big uproar, mostly from the right, because a member of the House was going to be sworn in using a Koran. It was tradition, we were told, to be sworn in on a bible. It was a tradition of Judeo-Christians to be sworn in on a bible. Like you said, the founders intended that ALL beliefs be respected, and none of them expected law makers to check their religious beliefs at the door, but our country has, in spite of its governing principals been somewhat intolerant of minority and non-christian beliefs. We have tolerated the Jewish faith because Christians view it as kin to their own beliefs, but Jehovah's witnesses have had to fight in court for their rights, Jewish people have had to fight to keep their children from being forced to participate in Christian prayer. It is one thing to have your beliefs and your politics shaped by your religious beliefs it is quite another to try to pass them into law in thinly veiled legislation. That the framers would be offended by.

 

[Timshel]

No, you want to dance around on a head of a pin, and claim our government is supposed to be devoid of anything related to God, while maintaining you aren't saying anything about individual beliefs. The fact of the matter is, our Declaration of Independence makes abundantly clear what our founding is based upon; the concept that "all men are Created equal" and "endowed with inalienable rights." Now just how the fuck can a government remain true to that idea without any acknowledgment of The Creator? To strip God from Government, is a direct and fundamental contradiction to our founding principle, and we should have NEVER gone down that road. But we did! We're there now, and look at what has become of a once great nation?

That is complete horseshit.

The first amendment makes clear that there was to be a separation between church and state. Many state constitutions echoed this principle in their own documents.

There is no indication in the DofI that the founders intended to advocate theism. "Creator" and "nature's God" are wide open concepts that can and were intended to encompass all manner of beliefs. "Laws of nature" is a reference to science and reason over revealed knowledge, miracles and dogma.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

That is complete horseshit.

The first amendment makes clear that there was to be a separation between church and state. Many state constitutions echoed this principle in their own documents.

There is no indication in the DofI that the founders intended to advocate theism. "Creator" and "nature's God" are wide open concepts that can and were intended to encompass all manner of beliefs. "Laws of nature" is a reference to science and reason over revealed knowledge, miracles and dogma.

Correct, the language was used with total and complete deference to respect for ALL religious belief. The ONLY thing it didn't indicate, is that our nation is founded on ATHEIST principles of NO GOD! There was no "separation of church and state" that is a myth you've trotted around preaching for the past 60 years, and it's simply a misinterpretation of what Jefferson intended.

The First Amendment makes clear, the government doesn't recognize any one religion over another, it views them all equally, and it guarantees you have the right to worship whatever religion you please, or not to worship at all, if you so desire. That has little to do with the founding principle that ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL AND ENDOWED BY THEIR CREATOR! That principle is IMPOSSIBLE to uphold, if there is NO belief in anything religious!

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Alveeda King is a religious conservative crack pot aligned with the socially conservative rightwing, and is anti-gay, and anti-reproductive choice. She shares some DNA with Dr. King, but she doesn't speak for him.

MLK was not aligned with a political party, and indeed he was to the left of the vast majority of Democrats. Labels don't mean crap, but MLK was basically a socialist, if any label can be applied to him.


On the other hand, its hilarious to see a bunch of over weight white tea bag people on the DC Mall trying to "reclaim" the civil rights movement. It doesn't get any funnier than that!

You're out of your goddamn mind. Dr. King was certainly NOT a socialist. And I think someone with King's genes is a better judge of what their uncle stood for, than you will EVER be!

As for your crack about 'overweight white people' I have been waiting for some pinhead to query about where the 'black people were'? If you'll notice, they mostly filled the stage and front rows of the event.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

That is not wh i am aying. I was asking you a very simple question, which you have refused to answer.

In her speech she says we can tell when the check "Uncle Martin" talked about is good when prayer is returned to public schools. Do you advocate prayers in public schools? And lets be clear, no one is talking about whether a student is allowed to pray alone and quietly in schools, but prayers led by the school faculty.

I believe that is when America began to lose its way. When we stripped God from schools, we effectively paved the way for generations to be raised without any respect for religious belief, and now we have you immoral fucktards lecturing everyone about tolerance.

Now I didn't hear Dr. King advocate anything about having prayer led by school faculty, so that is a red herring you're tossing in, because it has always been your paramount argument against school prayer. Yes, I advocate prayer in school... and done LOUDLY.. PROUDLY! I don't care if the school faculty leads it or the students! I don't care if it's a Baptist prayer or a Catholic prayer! I don't think school kids should be proselytized to, but I do believe they need to learn to have tolerance, respect and reverence for all religious beliefs. It does not harm anyone to have to listen to a 2-minute prayer from ANY religion! This is the universal principle of the founding of our nation and what makes our nation exceptional above all others. Why would we ever consider balking from that, when teaching our children?

Dr. A. King spoke out against abortion several times. That is another discussion entirely.

No, it's the SAME discussion! It's another instance of where we've lost our way as a nation. We decided it was better to endorse personal choice over a decent respect for human life and the work of God.

She also said we will know the check is good when our children are safe from crimes in the street. No argument from anyone that we want less crime, especially against children.

She advocates turning from what she calls "moral turpitude". Which begs the question, what sort of changes in morality does she advocate?

You can google "moral turpitude" if you're confused on the meaning.

And she said she has a dream that "white privilege will become human privilege".

And this was significant. It goes to the heart of what Beck had said earlier, about our scars. We've got to stop focusing on our scars and remember who we are!

So what profound and earthshaking changes did she advocate? And what changes do youwant to have come from Glenn Beck's weekend prayer session?

I want an awakening across America. I want people of every faith, to realize the message of Dr. King, and understand that we have lost our way. While we face monumental problems, things we can seemingly not find our way out of, the impossibility of what lies ahead, all of these problems are nothing for God to handle. Our strength is in our faith, collectively, as a society. We don't have to believe in the same specifics, we can go to different churches, even worship different understandings of God, but we can't turn our backs on God. That is an untenable course, and the course we find ourselves currently on.

 

[zappasguitar]

I believe that is when America began to lose its way. When we stripped God from schools, we effectively paved the way for generations to be raised without any respect for religious belief, and now we have you immoral fucktards lecturing everyone about tolerance.

Now I didn't hear Dr. King advocate anything about having prayer led by school faculty, so that is a red herring you're tossing in, because it has always been your paramount argument against school prayer. Yes, I advocate prayer in school... and done LOUDLY.. PROUDLY! I don't care if the school faculty leads it or the students! I don't care if it's a Baptist prayer or a Catholic prayer! I don't think school kids should be proselytized to, but I do believe they need to learn to have tolerance, respect and reverence for all religious beliefs. It does not harm anyone to have to listen to a 2-minute prayer from ANY religion! This is the universal principle of the founding of our nation and what makes our nation exceptional above all others. Why would we ever consider balking from that, when teaching our children?

Yer DAMN SKIPPY!!

Everyone should pray REAL LOUD because, as everyone with half a brain knows, GOD IS REAL OLD and therefore hard of hearing.

God can't hear you if you simply pray to yourself, hence Dix's demand for loud prayer.

Dix, you just keep getting weirder and weirder,but you make one helluva straight man! (as in "straight man" in a comedy duo)
(don't want Yurtsie taking anything else I write out of context, now do we)

 

[WinterBorn]

I believe that is when America began to lose its way. When we stripped God from schools, we effectively paved the way for generations to be raised without any respect for religious belief, and now we have you immoral fucktards lecturing everyone about tolerance. .

We have to lecture people on tolerance because the social conservatives want to label everyonje who isn't just like them a moral deviant. Being religious does not equate to being moral. There are some hardcore assholes that want the bible to be used for our laws, and spew nothing but hatred and venom. By the same token, there are atheists who treat others with dignity and respect. which seems more moral to you?

Now I didn't hear Dr. King advocate anything about having prayer led by school faculty, so that is a red herring you're tossing in, because it has always been your paramount argument against school prayer. .

Funny that you missed it. It is certainly not a red herring. Go back and listen to the speech again. Around the 3:15 mark.

Yes, I advocate prayer in school... and done LOUDLY.. PROUDLY! I don't care if the school faculty leads it or the students! I don't care if it's a Baptist prayer or a Catholic prayer! I don't think school kids should be proselytized to, but I do believe they need to learn to have tolerance, respect and reverence for all religious beliefs. It does not harm anyone to have to listen to a 2-minute prayer from ANY religion! This is the universal principle of the founding of our nation and what makes our nation exceptional above all others. Why would we ever consider balking from that, when teaching our children? .

Having the teacher lead a school prayer does not teach religious tolerance. You know as well as I do that the chances of a school prayer in the south being ANYTHING but christian protestant is somewhere between slim & none. They will not be taught tolerance. They will be taught to hate anyone who is another faith, who believes in the scientific theory of evolution, and anyone who is gay. When religions do not accept that there is any way but their way, you cannot hope to have them all leading prayers and tolerating each other.

No, it's the SAME discussion! It's another instance of where we've lost our way as a nation. We decided it was better to endorse personal choice over a decent respect for human life and the work of God.
.

I simply said it was another discussion because it is an in-depth topic with more nuances than the two typical sides allow. One side wants no abortion for any reason and the other wants them on demand for everyone. neither side, imho, is right.

You can google "moral turpitude" if you're confused on the meaning. .

And where do we get the moral guidance for bring us back to a sound morality? What will be the basis for this new moral USA? More than a few neocons on here have insisted that the Bible is the ONLY source for morality. Kinda hard to square that with the 1st amendment.

And this was significant. It goes to the heart of what Beck had said earlier, about our scars. We've got to stop focusing on our scars and remember who we are! .

Typically it is those who were scarred who want to continue talking about it, and those who did the scarring that want the subject to go away. You cannot demand that people suddenly forget wrongs that have been done to them.

I want an awakening across America. I want people of every faith, to realize the message of Dr. King, and understand that we have lost our way. While we face monumental problems, things we can seemingly not find our way out of, the impossibility of what lies ahead, all of these problems are nothing for God to handle. Our strength is in our faith, collectively, as a society. We don't have to believe in the same specifics, we can go to different churches, even worship different understandings of God, but we can't turn our backs on God. That is an untenable course, and the course we find ourselves currently on.

If everyone believes in God, then there is nothing the gov't can do to change that. My faith is an important part of who I am. But it is because I choose for my faith to be an important part of whio I am that matters. If we all follow our faith, the hatred and violence will disappear. But no amount of marching, gov't interference, or school prayer will make that faith happen for those who do not want it.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Yer DAMN SKIPPY!!

Everyone should pray REAL LOUD because, as everyone with half a brain knows, GOD IS REAL OLD and therefore hard of hearing.

God can't hear you if you simply pray to yourself, hence Dix's demand for loud prayer.

Yes, I said LOUDLY, not so God can hear it, so YOU can hear it! So your heathen offspring can hear it over their I-pod! LOUDLY AND PROUDLY, so that every piece of Atheist godless scum out there can hear it in no uncertain terms, let it ring from sea to shining sea! It's time for us to marginalize your anti-God rhetoric and cast your immorality out of our midst forever. IF we do this today, perhaps there is a chance to save your children, and teach the next generation about the importance of our founding principles.

 

[WinterBorn]

Yes, I said LOUDLY, not so God can hear it, so YOU can hear it! So your heathen offspring can hear it over their I-pod! LOUDLY AND PROUDLY, so that every piece of Atheist godless scum out there can hear it in no uncertain terms, let it ring from sea to shining sea! It's time for us to marginalize your anti-God rhetoric and cast your immorality out of our midst forever. IF we do this today, perhaps there is a chance to save your children, and teach the next generation about the importance of our founding principles.

Dixie, go back and read your bible. Look up Luke 18:9-14.

Or here, let me show you what it says.

" 9To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everybody else, Jesus told this parable: 10"Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11The Pharisee stood up and prayed about[a] himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.'
13"But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.'

14"I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.""




This whole idea that one must pray loudly and show off his faith is exactly the opposite of the truth of faith and godliness. What you are advocating is just making noise to show off. It has little or nothing to do with religious faith, and everything to do with either getting in someone's face or trying to playthe Pharisee.

 

[Damocles]

She's a powerful speaker! Wonder why that got so lil' press???

They are trying hard not to draw attention to the fact that the Standard Press has become a branch of the "Democratic" Party.