Uncle Martin Would Have Been So Proud...

Ice Dancer said:
She's a powerful speaker! Wonder why that got so lil' press???
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The same reason this thread will get no response.

They don't care! It doesn't make one bit of difference to them!

It's FAR more important to Liberal Democrats to keep us divided, keep us fighting with each other, keep a controversy going, keep driving a wedge between us, and keep us enslaved to them and away from the truth.
 
Dixie said:
The same reason this thread will get no response.

They don't care! It doesn't make one bit of difference to them!

It's FAR more important to Liberal Democrats to keep us divided, keep us fighting with each other, keep a controversy going, keep driving a wedge between us, and keep us enslaved to them and away from the truth.
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I think its far more important to keep religion out of our gov't.

I am glad more and more people are getting involved. But one of the stated goals of this rally was to bring God back to our gov't. That is not only unconstitutional, but a huge mistake.
 
WinterBorn said:
I think its far more important to keep religion out of our gov't.

I am glad more and more people are getting involved. But one of the stated goals of this rally was to bring God back to our gov't. That is not only unconstitutional, but a huge mistake.
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No, it was to bring the hearts and minds of American's back to God...
 
WinterBorn said:
I think its far more important to keep religion out of our gov't.

I am glad more and more people are getting involved. But one of the stated goals of this rally was to bring God back to our gov't. That is not only unconstitutional, but a huge mistake.
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Ice Dancer said:
No, it was to bring the hearts and minds of American's back to God...
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Ice Dancer is correct, and you are wrong anyway, WB. This retarded idea you and liberals have, that God is somehow disassociated with our unique and special form of government. This little fucked in the head idea has been ruminating in the intellectual elite circles for years, and pinheads like you, sop it up like gravy. You're a fucking idiot, and you are being used by people who seek to remove us from our spiritual beliefs, in order to enslave us to the state, and you are their willing accomplice in that mission. Were you even aware, that this was the very first principle and objective of Marxist-Leninism, to remove religion, so that people must have faith in the government instead?
 
Dixie said:
Ice Dancer is correct, and you are wrong anyway, WB. This retarded idea you and liberals have, that God is somehow disassociated with our unique and special form of government. This little fucked in the head idea has been ruminating in the intellectual elite circles for years, and pinheads like you, sop it up like gravy. You're a fucking idiot, and you are being used by people who seek to remove us from our spiritual beliefs, in order to enslave us to the state, and you are their willing accomplice in that mission. Were you even aware, that this was the very first principle and objective of Marxist-Leninism, to remove religion, so that people must have faith in the government instead?
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This! :good4u:
 
Dixie said:
Ice Dancer is correct, and you are wrong anyway, WB. This retarded idea you and liberals have, that God is somehow disassociated with our unique and special form of government. This little fucked in the head idea has been ruminating in the intellectual elite circles for years, and pinheads like you, sop it up like gravy. You're a fucking idiot, and you are being used by people who seek to remove us from our spiritual beliefs, in order to enslave us to the state, and you are their willing accomplice in that mission. Were you even aware, that this was the very first principle and objective of Marxist-Leninism, to remove religion, so that people must have faith in the government instead?
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Dixie, try and get your facts straight. Marxist-Leninism removed religion completely. Not just the removal of religion from the gov't, but from the people's lives. I have never advocated that.

I have never advocated removing anyone from their spiritual beliefs or removing spiritual beliefs from anyone. To claim that I have is simply a lie.

If lying is the only way you have to make your point, you have already lost.
 
WinterBorn said:
Dixie, try and get your facts straight. Marxist-Leninism removed religion completely. Not just the removal of religion from the gov't, but from the people's lives. I have never advocated that.

I have never advocated removing anyone from their spiritual beliefs or removing spiritual beliefs from anyone. To claim that I have is simply a lie.

If lying is the only way you have to make your point, you have already lost.
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No, you want to dance around on a head of a pin, and claim our government is supposed to be devoid of anything related to God, while maintaining you aren't saying anything about individual beliefs. The fact of the matter is, our Declaration of Independence makes abundantly clear what our founding is based upon; the concept that "all men are Created equal" and "endowed with inalienable rights." Now just how the fuck can a government remain true to that idea without any acknowledgment of The Creator? To strip God from Government, is a direct and fundamental contradiction to our founding principle, and we should have NEVER gone down that road. But we did! We're there now, and look at what has become of a once great nation?
 
Dixie said:
No, you want to dance around on a head of a pin, and claim our government is supposed to be devoid of anything related to God, while maintaining you aren't saying anything about individual beliefs. The fact of the matter is, our Declaration of Independence makes abundantly clear what our founding is based upon; the concept that "all men are Created equal" and "endowed with inalienable rights." Now just how the fuck can a government remain true to that idea without any acknowledgment of The Creator? To strip God from Government, is a direct and fundamental contradiction to our founding principle, and we should have NEVER gone down that road. But we did! We're there now, and look at what has become of a once great nation?
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You keep quoting that line from the document that has no official standing under our legal system.

I don't dance around a damn thing. I come straight out and say what I think. Having religion in the gov't would do nothing except add to the conflicts within our gov't. If you think the partisan politics is bad now, try it when there are openly christian, atheist, muslim, pagan and other religious factions in the gov't.

If you want to talk about founding principles, look at what our founding fathers did. The very first amendment to the US Constitution made sure there would be no state chosen religion.
 
Dixie said:
That's nothing but a fucking pathetic LIE. You're better than that.
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It is certainly not a lie. What confuses you is that you think I was talking about you. I was not. I was talking about the man whom I quoted.
 
WinterBorn said:
You keep quoting that line from the document that has no official standing under our legal system.

I don't dance around a damn thing. I come straight out and say what I think. Having religion in the gov't would do nothing except add to the conflicts within our gov't. If you think the partisan politics is bad now, try it when there are openly christian, atheist, muslim, pagan and other religious factions in the gov't.

If you want to talk about founding principles, look at what our founding fathers did. The very first amendment to the US Constitution made sure there would be no state chosen religion.
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Goddammit, it doesn't matter that the DoI has no legal standing, goofball! It's STILL the basis and foundational premise of our nation! Yes, the 1st Amendment basically guarantees you will never live in a theocracy, it's fucking impossible! This was important because it enables us to establish a nation based on the founding principle of all men being created equal and endowed with inalienable rights! Why can't you GET that? What part of it are you having trouble understanding? It wasn't about constructing a wall AROUND government to prevent ANY religious influence whatsoever, it was about establishing a government which could recognize and respect ALL RELIGIOUS BELIEFS!
 
Dixie said:
Goddammit, it doesn't matter that the DoI has no legal standing, goofball! It's STILL the basis and foundational premise of our nation! Yes, the 1st Amendment basically guarantees you will never live in a theocracy, it's fucking impossible! This was important because it enables us to establish a nation based on the founding principle of all men being created equal and endowed with inalienable rights! Why can't you GET that? What part of it are you having trouble understanding? It wasn't about constructing a wall AROUND government to prevent ANY religious influence whatsoever, it was about establishing a government which could recognize and respect ALL RELIGIOUS BELIEFS!
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Why can't you understand that a gov't that participates in religions would never treat them equally??

You want God in gov't, but you refuse to say whether you want the Judeo-Christian God, the muslim God, the agnostic's vague idea of God, the wiccan Goddess/God, the buddhist god, or whatever other gods there are in all the other faiths.

And what about those who don't believe in any God? Oh, my mistake, I forgot that they are all just liars who really do believe in God.
 
Dixie said:
Yes, the 1st Amendment basically guarantees you will never live in a theocracy, it's fucking impossible!
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Its fucking impossible?

So the whole rant about liberals who want to allow the manhattan mosque leading to Sharia Law for the US was not 100% accurate?

Say it ain't so!
 
If you think the partisan politics is bad now, try it when there are openly christian, atheist, muslim, pagan and other religious factions in the gov't.
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As a matter of fact, when the Constitution was signed and Bill of Rights ratified, most States actually had a State endorsed Religion. Pennsylvania was Quaker, Maryland was Methodist. It was very often, the primary religious leader of the state, who the people sent to Washington.
 
Dixie said:
As a matter of fact, when the Constitution was signed and Bill of Rights ratified, most States actually had a State endorsed Religion. Pennsylvania was Quaker, Maryland was Methodist. It was very often, the primary religious leader of the state, who the people sent to Washington.
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And that changed, didn't it?

In fact, when the US Constitution was ratified, people were still being persecuted for their religious beliefs.

James Madison said this about religious persecution in the 18th century: ""That diabolical, hell-conceived principle of persecution rages among some. . . . There are at this time in the adjacent county not less than five or six well-meaning men in close jail for publishing their religious sentiments, which in the main are very orthodox. . . . So I must beg you to . . . pray for liberty of conscience for all."

Those times which you harken back to were not golden years for those who believed differently from the majority.
 
WinterBorn said:
Why can't you understand that a gov't that participates in religions would never treat them equally??
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Who said anything about the government participating in religion? We're talking about the opposite, religion participating in government!

You want God in gov't, but you refuse to say whether you want the Judeo-Christian God, the muslim God, the agnostic's vague idea of God, the wiccan Goddess/God, the buddhist god, or whatever other gods there are in all the other faiths.
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No, I am not refusing to say that! Neither were the founders, neither did the Declaration of Independence. What part of ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL do you fail to understand? The entire premise of our founding is that we embrace and welcome ALL religion!

And what about those who don't believe in any God? Oh, my mistake, I forgot that they are all just liars who really do believe in God.
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Very many of them do, that's a fact. But what about those who don't? How does anything have to do with them?

Let's go back in history a bit, and try to find you some perspective here, because you are really lacking... Back before America was born, great empires fought for years and years, long bloody wars, over who's god was greatest. Each side believing their God was on their side, and the war they fought was in their God's name. Centuries of death and human destruction, over which group of people had the "best" God. Through this, many ideas were attempted, the English attempted to establish a national church, and have everyone pray to the same God. This worked for a while, but because the government established the church, you were really worshiping the government and not God. When puritans began worshiping God and forsaking government, problems ensued, and they left England as a result of that friction.

Our Founders were well aware of that situation, as well as the history of centuries fought between people in the name of their gods, so they contemplated an idea which would remedy all the problems and pitfalls of the past. Knowing that we could never maintain a solid principled society without ANY religious foundation, they established that we are ALL creatures of God, our own God, whoever or whatever God we believe in, and we have a universal tenant as children of our individual gods, we are created with inalienable rights. The Nation takes no favor toward ANY particular god, only the universal concept that whatever our god, it endows us with our freedom.

Where we have allowed ourselves to stray from this, is to foster a concept that government is supposed to be separated from religion by a wall, which would essentially mean we are an "Atheist" nation, instead of One Nation Under God!
 
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