The Science Is Very Clear: Schools Should Reopen This Fall

anatta said:
that only applies to asymptomatic cases. even SARS only lasts a year. and Virus mutate -
we're not sure yet but Corona looks to be able to mutate quickly
You dont have to be all birdbrained about it. a decent conversation is fine with me
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In T-cells SARS markers are shown to last many years.
It is not mutating that quickly never brought that up but whatever. Generally viruses mutate to more stable forms this one did have a more aggressive mutation after being introduced in Europe but generally like most viruses in the wild it will overtime become less lethal.
Bird brains are the best brains.

We may have some hope in Fenofibrate though. Just posted about it.
 
Concart said:
Lol, the Guardian agrees!!!!! THE worlds most respected peer reviewed Medical Journal. Oh wait.

My favorite part of this is that at least the msn article is from three months ago. Which is an eternity in this climate. Ironically, just five days later, the NYT published an article indicating the contrary was true.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/05/health/coronavirus-children-transmission-school.html

And then he sights the same article, just printed on different websites. They are lazy, stupid, and obnoxious, this Trump cult.

Bottom line, we don't yet what childrens role is in spreading the virus, but in general, viruses don't care who the carrier is, they spread nonetheless. We know that this week, in the State of Florida, 31% of children tested were positive. Now, given that, and given that long term impacts of this virus may very well be devastating even in mild cases, doesn't it seem rather stupid to just throw open the classroom doors? I think it does, unless you are a knuckledragging moron.
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I’ve done a lot of work in risk assessment in exposure to hazardous materials but I am by no means a public health expert or epidemiologist but the current lack of reliable data should be cause for an abundance of caution when assessing the risk of transmission given the consequences if you’re wrong.
 
Grajonca said:
You're just being an idiot each of those articles quote real life studies from France, Italy and Australia. So are you saying that children there have different physiology to American children? Here is the results of one study from Institute Pasteur, you've heard of them I presume.


School Children Don’t Spread Coronavirus, French Study Shows
By Marthe Fourcade
23 June 2020, 20:11 GMT+7
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Tom, it doesn’t matter. Left, right or center they are not peer reviewed journals and they are the epitome of confirmation bias. The peer review process amply shows that there is no consensus what so ever on transmission rates from schools due largely to lack of data or systemic approaches to sampling and collecting data.
 
crowonapost said:
Do you live in the world of all or nothing LAUGH OUT LOUD? Can't walk and chew gum? Can't understand that there can be discoveries along the way? Like people do not get any long term immunity, they can get reinfected and based on amount it can get worse? ALL Has been discovered. The full effects are to still being discovered that does not mean one waits until the entire city burns to figure out if a cow knocked over the lantern. Chicago learned that the hard way. -Chicago reference-

Yeah you really are that stupid.



Fucking over your head isn't it. It's not about the kids dumb ass it's about the spreading and no, there is early evidence that kids can spread it and I already gave examples from other countries. That you are too lazy is YOUR predetermined and ignorant arrogance.



Thanks to a shitty Fed response from Cult 45 we never were able to gather the data let alone get enough practical tests for the adults so really you have no clue wtf you're talking about and using pathetic parsed information to support the agenda of murdering fellow US citizens. That makes you complicit in evil.



No shit. Welcome to the new world barney, shits' changed. It's called a fucking pandemic. In our case the Cult 45 roll out pandemic where we stick our head up our ass and blame someone else and let everyone continue to die and say it's political if you don't like it. Yeah that's what evil does.



Yeah like every other developed country except this one, people are getting paid until it passes. Here it's called socialism. Well except for the most massive socialist hand out in the history of the united states that was passed out to all the big box corporations by dear leader n chief cult45, that's not socialism, amirite? No that's what sane democratic governments do, when they ask citizens to stay home, they cover their costs until it passes but here people have been so indoctrinated by the robber baron class to hate themselves and each other that they think it's great to go out and kill themselves and each other thinking lol they too will be a billionaire, when they won't.

Ever.



Plenty have looked at the other costs, You haven't. You choose to ignore that the responsibility of a modern government is to take care of it's population during crisis. This government has chosen to ignore it's own people.

This is the result. A country with the largest death toll on earth.



Everything you said and think is wrong and ignorant on about fifteen thousand levels. You are on the wrong side of reality. You are apart of an evil cult and are too blind to see it.
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It’s not about the kids but about the spreading lol?

When does it get to be about kids? You soulless bastards are using kids as a political football and deserve to pay for it at the polls.
 
Was kind of surprised to see this coming from Willie Brown in his weekly column about going back to school. He's spot on that keeping kids home will expand the divide between the haves and haves not but will be interesting to see what kind of feedback he gets.


Kids’ lives matter: When we say Black Lives Matter, let’s not forget to include Black and Latino children’s lives as well, especially when it comes to schooling this year.

San Francisco Unified’s decision to open the school year with distance teaching will have a devastating effect on kids in the Bayview, Hunters Point and Mission.

Many of them don’t come from families with a lot of technological advantages. Trying to teach them via computer is a joke and will put them further behind in their learning.

Plus, keeping at-risk kids at home will have a terrible impact on the mental, physical and economic health of both the children and their families.

Think about it. No school means a parent has to stay home. And a lot of parents cannot telecommute.

That means either a parent can’t work, putting the family behind economically, or Mom and Dad still have to go to work and leave an older child to be day parent.

There is no way the older child can manage the kids and manage their own Zoom learning as well.

If we can’t fully open the schools for learning, let’s at least try to open the school playgrounds and gymnasiums and maybe even a classroom or two for the kids to have a supervised and safe place to go.

Maybe even do a bit of teaching there.


https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea...rown-It-s-not-in-the-bag-for-Joe-15416772.php
 
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cawacko said:
Was kind of surprised to see this coming from Willie Brown in his weekly column about going back to school. He's spot that keeping kids home will expand the divide between the haves and haves not but will be interesting to see what kind of feedback he gets.


Kids’ lives matter: When we say Black Lives Matter, let’s not forget to include Black and Latino children’s lives as well, especially when it comes to schooling this year.

San Francisco Unified’s decision to open the school year with distance teaching will have a devastating effect on kids in the Bayview, Hunters Point and Mission.

Many of them don’t come from families with a lot of technological advantages. Trying to teach them via computer is a joke and will put them further behind in their learning.

Plus, keeping at-risk kids at home will have a terrible impact on the mental, physical and economic health of both the children and their families.

Think about it. No school means a parent has to stay home. And a lot of parents cannot telecommute.

That means either a parent can’t work, putting the family behind economically, or Mom and Dad still have to go to work and leave an older child to be day parent.

There is no way the older child can manage the kids and manage their own Zoom learning as well.

If we can’t fully open the schools for learning, let’s at least try to open the school playgrounds and gymnasiums and maybe even a classroom or two for the kids to have a supervised and safe place to go.

Maybe even do a bit of teaching there.


https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea...rown-It-s-not-in-the-bag-for-Joe-15416772.php
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Each school district will make its own plan. Generally, there are going to be hybrid systems. Some distance learning, some in school attendance.
 
jacksonsprat22 said:
Each school district will make its own plan. Generally, there are going to be hybrid systems. Some distance learning, some in school attendance.
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He’s talking about San Francisco, since he lives here and is an ex-Mayor, and we’re not having kids go to school.
 
cawacko said:
Was kind of surprised to see this coming from Willie Brown in his weekly column about going back to school. He's spot on that keeping kids home will expand the divide between the haves and haves not but will be interesting to see what kind of feedback he gets.


Kids’ lives matter: When we say Black Lives Matter, let’s not forget to include Black and Latino children’s lives as well, especially when it comes to schooling this year.

San Francisco Unified’s decision to open the school year with distance teaching will have a devastating effect on kids in the Bayview, Hunters Point and Mission.

Many of them don’t come from families with a lot of technological advantages. Trying to teach them via computer is a joke and will put them further behind in their learning.

Plus, keeping at-risk kids at home will have a terrible impact on the mental, physical and economic health of both the children and their families.

Think about it. No school means a parent has to stay home. And a lot of parents cannot telecommute.

That means either a parent can’t work, putting the family behind economically, or Mom and Dad still have to go to work and leave an older child to be day parent.

There is no way the older child can manage the kids and manage their own Zoom learning as well.

If we can’t fully open the schools for learning, let’s at least try to open the school playgrounds and gymnasiums and maybe even a classroom or two for the kids to have a supervised and safe place to go.

Maybe even do a bit of teaching there.


https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea...rown-It-s-not-in-the-bag-for-Joe-15416772.php
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The closures and social distancing has had a devastating impact on small businesses to that promote inequality but what does that have to do with calculating effective risk assessment strategies to save lives and prevent our public health systems from being overwhelmed? There is no argument that lots of people are being harmed in many ways but are the measures saving lives?
 
jacksonsprat22 said:
Yes, San Francisco. Maybe go to a San Francisco forum if that is the only topic you want to discuss.
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But the argument being made is we should shut down most schools so his argument, even though local, is national as many school districts are going this route. If there’s a trade off for safety this is it.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
And that has what to do with this topic?
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If the numbers were correct and not inflated.....people wouldn't be making such a stink about schools being open........like the ones
overseas who had honest reporting and coding going on and have kept schools open.
People tend to make choices based on facts and figures provided to them.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
I just love it when scientifically illiterate people, like you, show off their confirmation bias citing partisan politically biased articles.

Why don’t you try something new and unique. How about citing some peer reviewed research actually written by real scientists with real knowledge in public health, epidemiology and virology? Oh you couldn’t possibly do that! It might not support your confirmation bias!

This sort of science illiteracy in the American public just depresses the hell out of me. Is the American public just to fucking stupid to learn science one how it works or just to lazy and apathetic to give a fuck?

Here’s the real clear science on this topic based on current peer reviewed science.

THERE IS NO FUCKING SCIENTIFIC CONSENSUS OF REOPENING SCHOOLS AND COVID 19 TRANSMISSION!

The reason for that is in most countries that have reopened schools lack the data to draw any meaningful conclusions. What data that has been collected shows that in most of those countries the transmission rates are unknown. Some countries that have reopened schools, like Germany, Norway, Israel and Sweden have seen significant increases in transmission rates. Other countries, like Denmark and Norway have not seen a significant change in transmission rates but most countries with data the effect in transmission rates are still unknown. Then there are a lot of countries with no significantly reliable data, like the US, cause the fucking schools haven’t opened and there is no reliable data on transmission rates in schools.

That’s the peer reviewed science. There is no scientific consensus on this issue and to argue that the science is clear on this is an argument from ignorance. In other words the author you cited doesn’t have the first clue what they are talking about, meaning neither do you.

https://globalhealth.washington.edu...HYU1aTGx0RnpsMXlmOEtXSVJqaDJsZ0RJU1BQcVZjZSJ9
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Well Mott, WHERE IS THE FUCKING CONSENSUS ON HALF OF WHAT WE’VE DONE?

The country is in the midst of trying to recover from a national lockdown that severely lacks any peer reviewed studies, control arms, double blind clinical trials or meta analysis or whatever.

But now we’re paralyzed on opening schools because we lack consensus? How does that work?

It’s a facile argument. Consensus in science—when it happens at all, happens after years if not decades of scientists going back and forth and *disagreeing* with one another. There’s no ‘consensus’ on climate change, for example. That’s a joke and a farce that’s only convincing to scientifically illiterate morons and mildly disturbed European teenagers.

How about ‘the science is sufficient’ on opening schools? Certainly seems sufficient enough on masks, lockdowns and the rest. And like with locking down, it’s something that can be done at any time.

It’s not like schools have never been shutdown AFTER a flu outbreak—breaks out.
 
Darth Omar said:
Well Mott, WHERE IS THE FUCKING CONSENSUS ON HALF OF WHAT WE’VE DONE?

The country is in the midst of trying to recover from a national lockdown that severely lacks any peer reviewed studies, control arms, double blind clinical trials or meta analysis or whatever.

But now we’re paralyzed on opening schools because we lack consensus? How does that work?

It’s a facile argument. Consensus in science—when it happens at all, happens after years if not decades of scientists going back and forth and *disagreeing* with one another. There’s no ‘consensus’ on climate change, for example. That’s a joke and a farce that’s only convincing to scientifically illiterate morons and mildly disturbed European teenagers.

How about ‘the science is sufficient’ on opening schools? Certainly seems sufficient enough on masks, lockdowns and the rest. And like with locking down, it’s something that can be done at any time.

It’s not like schools have never been shutdown AFTER a flu outbreak—breaks out.
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Don't forget that some places, like FL & TX, are pulling back on re-opening while we're "trying to recover" from those shutdowns....
 
Darth Omar said:
Well Mott, WHERE IS THE FUCKING CONSENSUS ON HALF OF WHAT WE’VE DONE?

The country is in the midst of trying to recover from a national lockdown that severely lacks any peer reviewed studies, control arms, double blind clinical trials or meta analysis or whatever.

But now we’re paralyzed on opening schools because we lack consensus? How does that work?

It’s a facile argument. Consensus in science—when it happens at all, happens after years if not decades of scientists going back and forth and *disagreeing* with one another. There’s no ‘consensus’ on climate change, for example. That’s a joke and a farce that’s only convincing to scientifically illiterate morons and mildly disturbed European teenagers.

How about ‘the science is sufficient’ on opening schools? Certainly seems sufficient enough on masks, lockdowns and the rest. And like with locking down, it’s something that can be done at any time.

It’s not like schools have never been shutdown AFTER a flu outbreak—breaks out.
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:hand:
 
crowonapost said:
After scanning through this op ed that has nothing to do with reality or science I must say this is really disappointing. It's some screed about teachers unions, communism and other blathering bullshit with links to Betsy Devos as an example from science. Holy shit this is disturbing man. Fuck.

Sailor please consider the things I wrote. I don't have anything partisan about this. It's one of the few things I don't when it comes to Covid-19.
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I have always respected your opinion Crow. You know that.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
I just love it when scientifically illiterate people, like you, show off their confirmation bias citing partisan politically biased articles.

Why don’t you try something new and unique. How about citing some peer reviewed research actually written by real scientists with real knowledge in public health, epidemiology and virology? Oh you couldn’t possibly do that! It might not support your confirmation bias!

This sort of science illiteracy in the American public just depresses the hell out of me. Is the American public just to fucking stupid to learn science one how it works or just to lazy and apathetic to give a fuck?

Here’s the real clear science on this topic based on current peer reviewed science.

THERE IS NO FUCKING SCIENTIFIC CONSENSUS OF REOPENING SCHOOLS AND COVID 19 TRANSMISSION!

The reason for that is in most countries that have reopened schools lack the data to draw any meaningful conclusions. What data that has been collected shows that in most of those countries the transmission rates are unknown. Some countries that have reopened schools, like Germany, Norway, Israel and Sweden have seen significant increases in transmission rates. Other countries, like Denmark and Norway have not seen a significant change in transmission rates but most countries with data the effect in transmission rates are still unknown. Then there are a lot of countries with no significantly reliable data, like the US, cause the fucking schools haven’t opened and there is no reliable data on transmission rates in schools.

That’s the peer reviewed science. There is no scientific consensus on this issue and to argue that the science is clear on this is an argument from ignorance. In other words the author you cited doesn’t have the first clue what they are talking about, meaning neither do you.

https://globalhealth.washington.edu...HYU1aTGx0RnpsMXlmOEtXSVJqaDJsZ0RJU1BQcVZjZSJ9
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Wow Mott. I probably know as much about science as you. If not, I am sure I could figure it out. The gist of this article that all the left on here want to gloss over quickly is the teacher unions refusing to go back unless demands are met that have nothing at all to do with Covid. Medicare for all, De-funding police, taxing rich people. That is what they want. All political. Nothing related to children safety. So, to put it bluntly, you can blow it your ass. The only thing you or any other "expert" on this site about the transmission of Covid is limited to what you read. And that changes every, fucking day. Anyone can parrot what another idiot says. The left is great at it.
 
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