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[Cancel 2018. 3]

It's more like:

Person A - God is A, has done D, E

Person B - God is A, B, and C (but really just A!), has done D, E, F, and G

Person C - God is A, has done D, E, F, H, I


Do you think that Jews don't believe that Christians have "changed God?" Try to get some perspective.

my analysis was solely with regard to christianity vs. islam. i did not include any analysis regarding judaism. let me address your question first:

i'm not sure if the jews believe christians "changed" god. the important distinction i tried to convey to another poster is that text and prophets take precedent over what a person believes. this is evident with christianity, there are thousands of different churches, thousands of different interpretations and if one person "believes" something, then text and words of prophets (more text) take precedent. christians use the jewish texts and god (vis a vis the text) to show that jesus was mentioned, that there was a son of god (or son of man) mentioned in the texts. christianity does not claim the jewish texts are wrong or that their god is wrong or different (except for some, see apocrypha). jesus did not say the jews had the texts wrong or that their view of god was wrong. this stands in mark contrast to what muhammad claimed, which became the quran. the quran or muhammad claimed that the jews altered the holy text (a grave sin) and that the christians have it all wrong. islam claims that jesus is not god.

if you notice in my example above, i did include some of the same characteristics as you did. however, i disagree that the quran's claims of what jesus did or what god did, are as similar as you state. i've read much of the quran, i've read much of the bible (more NT) and it is clear that islam heavily alters who god is. earlier i posted a link that takes some very important concepts of who god is in islam vs. christianity and it is clear they are not remotely similar.

a point i tried to get across earlier is, if i claim to be a liberal democrat, does that make it true? i hold some liberal democrat ideas and act upon some liberal democrat ideas. does that mean i'm a liberal democrat?

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

He and myself are approaching it from the perspective that it's all fiction, so it really doesn't matter. If one prophet claims to come in and add on to it, it's little different than other patterns we've seen before. If the Quaran says they're the same, it is, again, like a Harry Potter fan fiction writer claiming to continue the story. Yeah, whatever.

Of course, from your perspective, he exists, and is exactly the God of Christianity. Saying that Allah is the same God would be somewhat of a recognition of the validity of Islam. Which is why a lot of Christians don't like to say it. From a value loaded perspective, yeah, they can be different things. A liberal and a conservative can both literally believe in the same constitution, but deny that the other has the "true" constitution. I am, of course, not asking you to recognize the Muslim God as the same "true" God, just that it's based on the same thing.



You can't honestly believe that the old testament was written with a Son of God in mind. It's kind of a big thing to leave out, don't you think? Christianity has sort of bit off a bit more than it could chew in deifying their prophet (although Jesus's semi-mythical nature, contrasted with Muhammad's obvious historicity, does make it easier).

i have not seen you claim i am a bigot. that is my main point with him. do you believe i'm a bigot for my beliefs?

i can honestly believe the OT was written with jesus is in mind. if one believes in prophecy, then it isn't hard to believe at all. there are examples in the NT of someone described as the "son of man". who is this person? the person is not an angel and who is expressly distinguished. the OT does not explain who this "person" is.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Scriptural: The Koran itself in several places insists that its God is the same as the God of Judaism and Christianity. The most direct statement is one in which Muslims are admonished to tell Jews and Christians "We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you; our God and your God is One, and to Him we do submit" (E.H. Palmer translation of Sura 29:46) Of course, the verse can also be rendered "our Allah and your Allah is One" (as it is in the notorious Abdullah Yusuf Ali translation)

Wow, you've just demonstrated to us all that Islam is legitimate! If they completely copied Christianity in every aspect, why on Earth would they possibly say that their God was the same as the Christian God? That just doesn't make a bit of sense to me, they must be telling the truth! You'd think that people who were ripping off Christianity and trying to convince people that their religion was the true interpretations of the God of Abraham, they'd want people to think they worshiped a totally different God, right? But they didn't do that... they claimed it was the same God, so it must be true! You're so fucking brilliant, SF!

And here you've clearly offered proof that you are right and we are wrong, because the Koran, written centuries after Judaism and Christianity, says Islam believes in the same God as the Israelites, so that just HAS to be the truth! No questions about it, that proves beyond any doubt they worship the same deity.... it's just that, their instructions from the same deity, calls for them to kill all the Jews.... but still.... same God, the Koran says so! And SF says so! We've been PWNED!

 

[Rune]

Wow, you've just demonstrated to us all that Islam is legitimate! If they completely copied Christianity in every aspect, why on Earth would they possibly say that their God was the same as the Christian God? That just doesn't make a bit of sense to me, they must be telling the truth! You'd think that people who were ripping off Christianity and trying to convince people that their religion was the true interpretations of the God of Abraham, they'd want people to think they worshiped a totally different God, right? But they didn't do that... they claimed it was the same God, so it must be true! You're so fucking brilliant, SF!

And here you've clearly offered proof that you are right and we are wrong, because the Koran, written centuries after Judaism and Christianity, says Islam believes in the same God as the Israelites, so that just HAS to be the truth! No questions about it, that proves beyond any doubt they worship the same deity.... it's just that, their instructions from the same deity, calls for them to kill all the Jews.... but still.... same God, the Koran says so! And SF says so! We've been PWNED!

Finaly come to your senses.

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

Finaly come to your senses.

i think it is hilarious how you are too scared to actually debate the issue with anyone. all you do is hide behind SF's skirts and lob insults.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Wow, you've just demonstrated to us all that Islam is legitimate! If they completely copied Christianity in every aspect, why on Earth would they possibly say that their God was the same as the Christian God? That just doesn't make a bit of sense to me, they must be telling the truth! You'd think that people who were ripping off Christianity and trying to convince people that their religion was the true interpretations of the God of Abraham, they'd want people to think they worshiped a totally different God, right? But they didn't do that... they claimed it was the same God, so it must be true! You're so fucking brilliant, SF!

You truly are a fucking idiot. I am pointing out to you what 1.2 BILLION people believe. Yet YOU are asking the rest of us to ignore THEIR FAITH, to demean THEIR religion, because YOU say it is a fraud.

And here you've clearly offered proof that you are right and we are wrong, because the Koran, written centuries after Judaism and Christianity, says Islam believes in the same God as the Israelites, so that just HAS to be the truth! No questions about it, that proves beyond any doubt they worship the same deity.... it's just that, their instructions from the same deity, calls for them to kill all the Jews.... but still.... same God, the Koran says so! And SF says so! We've been PWNED!

Again moron, my point is not to say that your beliefs are wrong. My point is to say that your beliefs are BIGOTED. ALL Religious beliefs are based on FAITH. No matter how many times you two idiots stomp your feet and proclaim 'its a FACT, they believe in a different God'.... it is not the case. What they BELIEVE is what THEY tell us they believe. Not what YOU tell us they believe.

Again moron, what you and the other bigot Yurt continue to fail to see is the FACT that your bigotry lies in proclaiming 'their God is not the same as the Christians and Jews God because they tell different stories and have different accounts of God' all the while you two bigots ignore ALL THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN Judaism and Christianity and ALL THE SIMILARITIES between Islam and Christianity.

Every time I bring up that simple point, you two bigots run and hide and refuse to address it.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

i think it is hilarious how you are too scared to actually debate the issue with anyone. all you do is hide behind SF's skirts and lob insults.

I think it hilarious that you are too scared to actually debate the issue and that you run and hide and move the goal posts every time someone points out your idiocy.

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

I think it hilarious that you are too scared to actually debate the issue and that you run and hide and move the goal posts every time someone points out your idiocy.

wow. this show just how far you have spazzed out. yeah SF, i have never once debated the issue with you.

i even came back after letting it go because you just run in circles....because you refused to let it go and spazzed all over the board and you came back with a slightly new twist. to claim i have not debated the issue is false. your claim is more of a reflection of just how petulant and dishonest you.

it is so cute how you and dune have become so close, you're now copying each other. awe.

good job spazzbag

 

[Rune]

I think it hilarious that you are too scared to actually debate the issue and that you run and hide and move the goal posts every time someone points out your idiocy.

I think it is hilarious that for over 50 pages, two idiots have been pwned repeatedly by both sides and continue to twist, convolute spin, and lie and yurt doesn't understand why I don't want to say "yes is it is" no it's not, "yes it is" ad infinitum.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

I think it is hilarious that for over 50 pages, two idiots have been pwned repeatedly by both sides and continue to twist, convolute spin, and lie and yurt doesn't understand why I don't want to say "yes is it is" no it's not, "yes it is" ad infinitum.

Especially when the poor little spaz continues to try and move the goal posts and speak in absolutes. The poor little twit can't understand that there are few, if any, absolutes when it comes to religion.

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

I think it is hilarious that for over 50 pages, two idiots have been pwned repeatedly by both sides and continue to twist, convolute spin, and lie and yurt doesn't understand why I don't want to say "yes is it is" no it's not, "yes it is" ad infinitum.

Especially when the poor little spaz continues to try and move the goal posts and speak in absolutes. The poor little twit can't understand that there are few, if any, absolutes when it comes to religion.

the two love birds having pillow talk.

get a room for the love of all this is pure and good.

i notice once again dune pusses out of any debate and hides behind SF again. why do you protect dune SF?

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

the two love birds having pillow talk.

get a room for the love of all this is pure and good.

i notice once again dune pusses out of any debate and hides behind SF again. why do you protect dune SF?

Muslim: Believe in God of Abraham, Jesus is not Gods son
Jew: Believe in God of Abraham, Jesus is not Gods son
Christian: Believe in God of Abraham, Jesus IS Gods son and along with Holy Spirit makes a 3 in 1 God

Yurt: Muslims altered God, Jews and Christians believe in same God (even though their God is identical to Jews and it is the Christians if anyone that 'changed the structure of God')

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

You truly are a fucking idiot. I am pointing out to you what 1.2 BILLION people believe. Yet YOU are asking the rest of us to ignore THEIR FAITH, to demean THEIR religion, because YOU say it is a fraud.

Right..... And because 1.2 BILLION people believe something, it HAS to be TRUE... that PROVES IT! Like I said, you're fucking brilliant, SF!

Again moron, my point is not to say that your beliefs are wrong. My point is to say that your beliefs are BIGOTED. ALL Religious beliefs are based on FAITH. No matter how many times you two idiots stomp your feet and proclaim 'its a FACT, they believe in a different God'.... it is not the case. What they BELIEVE is what THEY tell us they believe. Not what YOU tell us they believe.

Oh, I ain't telling you what they believe, the Koran tells us what they believe. Their clerics and mullahs tell us what they believe, in their fatwahs and edicts. We don't have to go by what I say they believe. And of course, you are right... just because their God calls for the extermination of the Jews like they are roaches, doesn't mean it's not the same God of Tolerance and Forgiveness preached by Jesus, King of the Jews... it could be the same guy! Just because their God calls for them to saw the heads off Infidels, doesn't mean it's not the same God as Christians worship.... How could I possibly even think such a thing? And here you have, TOLD us that it's the same God, and they claim it's the same God, so...wow... I'm overwhelmed with geniusness here... it MUST be TRUE!

Again moron, what you and the other bigot Yurt continue to fail to see is the FACT that your bigotry lies in proclaiming 'their God is not the same as the Christians and Jews God because they tell different stories and have different accounts of God' all the while you two bigots ignore ALL THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN Judaism and Christianity and ALL THE SIMILARITIES between Islam and Christianity.

Right, we're bigots because there is just no arguing the fact that Jews and Christians have a different understanding of Jesus' role, and that's the totally exact same thing as believing God wants us to exterminate all Jews and form an Islamic Caliphate to facilitate the return of the 12th Imam. And again, I don't know why in the world people would attempt to copy a Religion, and then claim their God was the same as the religion they were trying to copy, that doesn't make any sense at all, so you must be right!

Every time I bring up that simple point, you two bigots run and hide and refuse to address it.

Yes, I know... we're cowards, that's what it is! We are too afraid of you and your superior knowledge... maybe we think you are the same manic-depresive split personality God as the Muslims and Jews worship? Gotta be something, because me and Yurt haven't even shown our face in this thread, we are too afraid to even speak in your presence. I mean, read the thread, it's just post after post of you telling us how things are, and us not accepting it and then running away... I can see Yurt running from here! No... No.... Come back Yurt! Don't run away! Aww... too late, he's gone again!

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Right..... And because 1.2 BILLION people believe something, it HAS to be TRUE... that PROVES IT! Like I said, you're fucking brilliant, SF!

Poor Ditzie.... AGAIN, I am NOT saying it PROVES that Muslims are correct or incorrect. I am stating THAT IS WHAT THEY BELIEVE. You are suggesting the rest of us IGNORE that and instead join you in calling their religion a fraud/counterfeit based on YOUR belief. You have no proof they are wrong. You keep spouting the same nonsense that their religious stories are different from the religious stories of other religions and acting as though that proves Islam is 'counterfeit'. You keep pretending that because Christianity preceded Islam, that somehow makes Islam a counterfeit. This too is a completely bogus point. It is meaningless which FAITH came first. BOTH are derived on stories of preceding religions.

Oh, I ain't telling you what they believe, the Koran tells us what they believe. Their clerics and mullahs tell us what they believe, in their fatwahs and edicts. We don't have to go by what I say they believe. And of course, you are right... just because their God calls for the extermination of the Jews like they are roaches, doesn't mean it's not the same God of Tolerance and Forgiveness preached by Jesus, King of the Jews... it could be the same guy! Just because their God calls for them to saw the heads off Infidels, doesn't mean it's not the same God as Christians worship.... How could I possibly even think such a thing? And here you have, TOLD us that it's the same God, and they claim it's the same God, so...wow... I'm overwhelmed with geniusness here... it MUST be TRUE!

Again DITZIE.... Is 'God' as described in the Old Testament the same as the 'God' described in the New Testament?

Right, we're bigots because there is just no arguing the fact that Jews and Christians have a different understanding of Jesus' role, and that's the totally exact same thing as believing God wants us to exterminate all Jews and form an Islamic Caliphate to facilitate the return of the 12th Imam. And again, I don't know why in the world people would attempt to copy a Religion, and then claim their God was the same as the religion they were trying to copy, that doesn't make any sense at all, so you must be right!

LMAO.... again poor Ditzie, there are far more differences between Jews and Christians than just Jesus's role. No matter how many times you try to simplify it to just that.

As for your nonstop 'they all want to kill the Jews'.... again Ditzie.... If 1.2 BILLION Muslims were REALLY intent on killing the 15 million or so Jews in the world today.... do you honestly think there would be any Jews alive today?????

Yes, I know... we're cowards, that's what it is! We are too afraid of you and your superior knowledge... maybe we think you are the same manic-depresive split personality God as the Muslims and Jews worship? Gotta be something, because me and Yurt haven't even shown our face in this thread, we are too afraid to even speak in your presence. I mean, read the thread, it's just post after post of you telling us how things are, and us not accepting it and then running away... I can see Yurt running from here! No... No.... Come back Yurt! Don't run away! Aww... too late, he's gone again!

Seriously.... 'split-personality God'.... you want to go there Mr. 'I'm not a Christian'??? Who among the three religions has the split-personality God?

Next, I didn't say you hadn't been on the thread you idiot. I said you idiots continue to run away from a very basic question....

You CLAIM that the Muslims believe in a different God than the God of Abraham because their STORIES are different than Christians.

Yet the STORIES believed by Jews and Christians are widely different as well. There are great inconsistencies between the two....

The question you continue to avoid is this....

WHY do you not proclaim either the Jews or Christians to be frauds as well? They cannot both be 'right'. One copied a LOT from the other, yet there are vast differences in the two religions. WHY do you not hold those differences to the same standard you do to Muslims?

The stories of God of the Old Testament are far more like the stories of God of the Quran, than the stories of God of the New Testament.

The stories of God of the New Testament are more akin to a collection of varying pagan beliefs.

Just curious... in what month was Jesus born?

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

You CLAIM that the Muslims believe in a different God than the God of Abraham because their STORIES are different than Christians.

This is not what I claimed. As a matter of fact, the stories are very SIMILAR, not different. The interpretation of the moral, the intentions, the motivations... all diametrically opposite... but the stories are very much the same. As I said, they COPIED Christianity, and I know this is hard for you to comprehend, but generally, when someone "copies" something, it has a lot of similarity to the original...strange how that works.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

SF, I think you show a profound ignorance of religion in this thread. The story of Abraham, and his sons, is the story of how mankind came to worship a single God instead of multiple Gods. Abraham marks the birth of monotheism, and changed the way humans think about God and each other forever. Islam came centuries later, as an affront to Judaism and Christianity. It was not borne out of faith, it was borne out of necessity. The Moon-worshiping Mooslems did not want to worship Abraham's God, they taught their followers that the Moon God was superior to Abraham's God... "Allah" literally means "Father of Gods" ...signifying multiple Gods. Mohamed came along and laid claim to ancestry with Abraham, through a series of descendants which don't conform to reality as far as the time lines, but that doesn't matter because we are to believe Jews and Christians just lied about the amount of time. The entire religion was created centuries afterward, with the motivation and purpose of destroying Judaism and Christianity, and this remains the fundamental Islamic objective to this day. To claim they are "the same" as Jews and Christians in their beliefs, is simply FALSE!!

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

This is not what I claimed. As a matter of fact, the stories are very SIMILAR, not different. The interpretation of the moral, the intentions, the motivations... all diametrically opposite... but the stories are very much the same. As I said, they COPIED Christianity, and I know this is hard for you to comprehend, but generally, when someone "copies" something, it has a lot of similarity to the original...strange how that works.

Now READ what YOU wrote ditzie... It is the INTERPRETATION that is different. Not the God. They all believe in the SAME entity. Thank you for finally admitting that is the case. It is just the INTERPRETATION of the STORIES that is different.

 

[Rune]

Allah" literally means "Father of Gods" ...signifying multiple Gods.

Cite.

 

[Alias]

"Allah" comes from the Arabic word "elah"a god' or something worshiped. - (Arabic) means '

This word (elah) can be made plural (gods), as in "aleha" and it can be male or female just as the word in English can be "goddess."

"Allah" comes from "elaha" but it brings more clarification and understanding.

Allah = Has no gender (not male and not female)
"He" is used only out of respect and dignity - not for gender
Allah = Always singular - Never plural
"We" is used only as the "Royal WE" just as in English for royalty
Allah = Means "The Only One to be Worshipped"

http://www.godallah.com/

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

The story of Abraham, and his sons, is the story of how mankind came to worship a single God instead of multiple Gods. Abraham marks the birth of monotheism, and changed the way humans think about God and each other forever.

You are correct on the above.

Islam came centuries later, as an affront to Judaism and Christianity. It was not borne out of faith, it was borne out of necessity.

Here you go off the deep end yet again. The timing is NOT an issue. YOU calling it 'an affront to Judaism and Christianity' again is a highly BIGOTED view. It was most certainly a religion born from Faith. Faith in the teachings of the prophet Mohammad. Just as Christianity was born on FAITH in the teachings of Christ. Timing is NOT an issue. Not sure how many times I have to point it out to you, but Christianity came CENTURIES after Judaism and is vastly different in many aspects. Yet you don't harp on the timing issue between Judaism or Christianity. WHY?

The Moon-worshiping Mooslems did not want to worship Abraham's God, they taught their followers that the Moon God was superior to Abraham's God... "Allah" literally means "Father of Gods"

Prior to hearing the teachings of Christ, many Christians also worshiped other Gods. So once again, as I previously stated, this is also a bogus point on your part.

Also.... Allah does not literally mean 'Father of the Gods'... It literally means 'GOD'. You are confusing yourself with pre-Islamic beliefs in multiple Gods and trying to associate the use of Allah at that time to somehow equate to what you want it to mean for Muslims today. It would be similar to my proclaiming GOD really means Zeus father of the Gods.

...signifying multiple Gods. Mohamed came along and laid claim to ancestry with Abraham, through a series of descendants which don't conform to reality as far as the time lines, but that doesn't matter because we are to believe Jews and Christians just lied about the amount of time. The entire religion was created centuries afterward, with the motivation and purpose of destroying Judaism and Christianity, and this remains the fundamental Islamic objective to this day. To claim they are "the same" as Jews and Christians in their beliefs, is simply FALSE!!

I have never stated they are the same as Christians and Jews in their beliefs you unbelievable hack. If ANY of the three were 'the same' in their beliefs then they would share the SAME religion. ONCE AGAIN, having different beliefs, interpretations of stories does NOT change the ENTITY they ALL believe in.

Again.... Christians and Jews ALSO believed in Multiple Gods prior to becoming Christians and Jews. So that point is nothing short of absurd.

AGAIN... the timing of when the stories were relayed to the respective people is IRRELEVANT.