should we send foriegn countries money or use it here to help Americans?

[evince]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122488710556068177.html



How Detroit Drove Into a Ditch

The financial crisis has brought the U.S. auto industry to a breaking point, but the trouble began long ago. Paul Ingrassia on disastrous decisions, flawed leadership and what the Motor City needs to do to survive.




The result of this burden, and of other failures, has been catastrophic. Because of it, Detroit remains saddled with a cost structure that prevents making profits on any vehicles besides gas-guzzling trucks and SUVs. That was fine during the SUV boom, just as owning Enron stock was terrific until that infamous company crashed. But then Enron stockholders who hadn't diversified their portfolios were wiped out. Now Detroit lacks a diversified source of profits -- i.e. small cars, midsize sedans, etc. -- and is scrambling to avoid a similar fate. It's highly unlikely that all three companies will survive.



the wall street journal

 

[evince]

pretending is was all the unions fault is just right wing spit and bile

 

[PostmodernProphet]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122488710556068177.html



How Detroit Drove Into a Ditch

The financial crisis has brought the U.S. auto industry to a breaking point, but the trouble began long ago. Paul Ingrassia on disastrous decisions, flawed leadership and what the Motor City needs to do to survive.




The result of this burden, and of other failures, has been catastrophic. Because of it, Detroit remains saddled with a cost structure that prevents making profits on any vehicles besides gas-guzzling trucks and SUVs. That was fine during the SUV boom, just as owning Enron stock was terrific until that infamous company crashed. But then Enron stockholders who hadn't diversified their portfolios were wiped out. Now Detroit lacks a diversified source of profits -- i.e. small cars, midsize sedans, etc. -- and is scrambling to avoid a similar fate. It's highly unlikely that all three companies will survive.



the wall street journal

from the above....

But the United Auto Workers prevailed, and as the GM-Ford-Chrysler oligopoly emerged in the 1940s, the union gained a labor monopoly in American auto factories. As costs increased, the companies routinely passed them on to U.S. consumers, who had virtually no alternatives in buying cars.

 

[tekkychick]

We cut taxes too far under Bush, especially since he also spent on two wars and did the medicare prescription benefit (I liked it, but it was costly)

No one is saying raise taxes to 90%. But we ARE saying we need a decent safety net for poor, kids, seniors, and the sick; and if that means bumping it a few percent so be it.

You know- back to Clinton rates, when we had a surplus.

 

[cawacko]

dear idiot,


the car company CEOs did this to Detroit.


why do you pretend otherwise?

So how have other cities that lost their major employer not gone bankrupt while Detroit did?

 

[tekkychick]

So how have other cities that lost their major employer not gone bankrupt while Detroit did?

It's not a question of one employer. It's a question of ALL the car companies failing.

There are many small town who lost the one company that employed people; maybe they didn't go bankrupt, but it put them in a world of hurt, young people had to move to other places to get jobs, main street businesses failed, etc. etc etc. Read up on small town America, it happens all over.

Detroit didn't have anything but car companies; when they started failing due to lousy management, it didn't have anything else to bolster the economy.

They're trying; the downtown area is getting energized. But the recession really hurt them.

 

[cawacko]

It's not a question of one employer. It's a question of ALL the car companies failing.

There are many small town who lost the one company that employed people; maybe they didn't go bankrupt, but it put them in a world of hurt, young people had to move to other places to get jobs, main street businesses failed, etc. etc etc. Read up on small town America, it happens all over.

Detroit didn't have anything but car companies; when they started failing due to lousy management, it didn't have anything else to bolster the economy.

They're trying; the downtown area is getting energized. But the recession really hurt them.

I have family in Ohio. I know all about what happens to small towns when the major employer leaves.

I do not understand how the argument can be made that the city government of Detroit played no role in this bankruptcy which has essentially been the argument made here.

Sorry for repeating myself here but like I said I had a chance to spend time last week with two guys who have long Michigan and Detroit roots and listen to them talk about the heyday of the City and it's decline. I have no idea these men's politics and they weren't speaking from a partisan perspective. It was really fascinating to hear. It was so much more than just 'it's the car companies fault' though. That's just a facile answer to a far larger issue.

 

[evince]

If the car companies had begun building what was selling instead of huge hulking gas guzzlers Detroit would have been fine

 

[tekkychick]

I have family in Ohio. I know all about what happens to small towns when the major employer leaves.

I do not understand how the argument can be made that the city government of Detroit played no role in this bankruptcy which has essentially been the argument made here.

Sorry for repeating myself here but like I said I had a chance to spend time last week with two guys who have long Michigan and Detroit roots and listen to them talk about the heyday of the City and it's decline. I have no idea these men's politics and they weren't speaking from a partisan perspective. It was really fascinating to hear. It was so much more than just 'it's the car companies fault' though. That's just a facile answer to a far larger issue.

I agree it's not just the car companies; it's the city's reaction to them, the corruption it's had, the whole white flight, etc.

But letting this city die - that's what the state and federal govt are doing.

I hope the boosters are able to bring it back.

 

[cawacko]

I agree it's not just the car companies; it's the city's reaction to them, the corruption it's had, the whole white flight, etc.

But letting this city die - that's what the state and federal govt are doing.

I hope the boosters are able to bring it back.

What would or should the Fed do in your opinion?

 

[PostmodernProphet]

But letting this city die - that's what the state and federal govt are doing.

the state has been keeping this city from dying for thirty years....they finally got tired of doing so while the city refused to change......two years ago they gave them a deadline.....change within two years or you go into bankruptcy.....the city council never even bothered to vote for two years.....

 

[tekkychick]

What would or should the Fed do in your opinion?

Invest, invest, invest. Invest in infrastructure projects; buy up vacant land and make it into a park; give businesses low interest loans to move there; build a university; do a tech incubator; for homeowners that are still living in Detroit but whose houses are underwater, buy up their mortgages and rent their houses back to them at an affordable rate; develop the waterfront; start a music festival...

so much that could be done!

 

[cawacko]

Invest, invest, invest. Invest in infrastructure projects; buy up vacant land and make it into a park; give businesses low interest loans to move there; build a university; do a tech incubator; for homeowners that are still living in Detroit but whose houses are underwater, buy up their mortgages and rent their houses back to them at an affordable rate; develop the waterfront; start a music festival...

so much that could be done!

You want the federal government to do all this?

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

We cut taxes too far under Bush, especially since he also spent on two wars and did the medicare prescription benefit (I liked it, but it was costly)

Yet Obama kept 2/3 of the Bush tax cuts in place (all of them for two years)... I wonder why.

No one is saying raise taxes to 90%. But we ARE saying we need a decent safety net for poor, kids, seniors, and the sick; and if that means bumping it a few percent so be it.

You know- back to Clinton rates, when we had a surplus.

So you want to raise taxes on the poor and middle income families? Because top rates are already back.

Also... Clinton had BUDGET surpluses... he never had an ACTUAL surplus.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Invest, invest, invest. Invest in infrastructure projects; buy up vacant land and make it into a park; give businesses low interest loans to move there; build a university; do a tech incubator; for homeowners that are still living in Detroit but whose houses are underwater, buy up their mortgages and rent their houses back to them at an affordable rate; develop the waterfront; start a music festival...

so much that could be done!

You want the federal government to become a landlord? to start developing cities? Start a music festival? (seriously WTF with that one)...

 

[PostmodernProphet]

Invest, invest, invest. Invest in infrastructure projects; buy up vacant land and make it into a park; give businesses low interest loans to move there; build a university; do a tech incubator; for homeowners that are still living in Detroit but whose houses are underwater, buy up their mortgages and rent their houses back to them at an affordable rate; develop the waterfront; start a music festival...

so much that could be done!

all of those have been done by the state over the last thirty years....

 

[tekkychick]

You want the federal government to do all this?

Oh, not all of it, but that was just an idea of the kinds of things the federal govt could do. I'm sure people "on the ground" in Detroit could arrive at a specific list for their city.

(Um, SF - the federal govt IS a landlord. They own lots of buildings and parks and whatnot)

 

[tekkychick]

So you want to raise taxes on the poor and middle income families? Because top rates are already back.

.

Um, no,we are NOT back to Clinton rates for all top incomes.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Oh, not all of it, but that was just an idea of the kinds of things the federal govt could do. I'm sure people "on the ground" in Detroit could arrive at a specific list for their city.

(Um, SF - the federal govt IS a landlord. They own lots of buildings and parks and whatnot)

LMAO... yes, there are national parks and federal buildings... but could you tell me where they buy up neighborhoods and rent homes or apartments?

why not just have them buy all the land in the country, give us all equal square footage to live in and no one gets more, no matter how wealthy?

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Um, no,we are NOT back to Clinton rates for all top incomes.

I said the top rates are back and they are... which bracket or income level are you referring to?

Also... if we go back to Clinton era rates, can we also go back to his spending levels? (adjusted for inflation/population)