OUR PRISONS ARE OVERCROWDED!

Granule said:
The current system is a joke. Who in the hell wants an inmate to just sit around and waste tax dollars? There's so much more that could be done with him.

My "for profit" idea would be anything but immoral.
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Wow...just wow. You have no idea what morality is then.
 
Damocles said:
Once you realize that incentivizing the imprisonment of people in the "land of the free" is morally wrong, there really is nothing left to argue.

I haven't blamed the system, I simply and directly (as conservatives often do) look at the result over the emotive arguments. It is always fun to go emotional and talk about how everybody in prison "deserves" it, but the reality is, only liberals ignore human nature to a level where they become purposefully ignorant of reality and the direct result of the monetary incentive provided (welfare queen example). Giving people monetary incentive to continue incarceration leads down a bad path.
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yea Damo...Thanks Obama!

What a self righteous crock of shit. You had me agreeing with you on the moral principles involved until you tried to float this bit of inane bigotry by. Any other ad hom logical fallacies you want try? This is the problem with you ideologues. Fact and principle be damned, its ideology that counts.

Maybe you hadn't noticed Damo but it wasn't "liberals" that created for profit prisons or anyone else you'd care to demonize. It's libertarian minded free market fundamentalist conservatives who came up with this brilliant idea but as with any ideologue this isn't a fact that matters cause its heretical to your orthodoxy.

The FACTS, regardless of whether you are liberal, conservative, anarcho-libertarian, communist, Toltec or Mongolian horse herder is that for profit prisons are immoral and unethical. They are unethical because they cannot administer justice impartially as they have an incentive to grow the prison industrial complex and lobby for more incarceration laws with more and longer sentencing to sustain the growth of their profits. This an obvious conflict of interest to the impartial and fair administration of justice.

For profit prisons are immoral simply because the incentive for profit creates increased incentive to put more people in prison.

So see you can base a fact based judgments on the ethics and morality of this issue without resorting to mindless ideology or illogical ad Homs.
 
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USFREEDOM911 said:
Does this mean that you want all drugs made legal, even Krokodil

Krokodil Information

Krokodil is a fairly new drug that has appeared in Russia since 2002. It started showing up in Siberia and has spread throughout the country since then. While several drugs are quickly and harshly addictive and physically damaging, krokodil sets a new standard for fast destruction of mind, spirit and body. In 2013 reports of its use began cropping up in the U.S.

The medical name for the drug is desomorphine. It is made at home by acquiring codeine, sold over the counter for headaches, and cooking it with paint thinner, gasoline, hydrochloric acid, iodine and the red phosphorous from matchbox strike pads. The resulting liquid is injected into a vein. The high from this drug lasts 90 minutes to two hours, and it takes about a half-hour to make the drug. So a krokodil addict does little other than get the ingredients and cook up the drug.

Russia has a severe problem with heroin addiction, but when a heroin addict can no longer afford that drug, he can make up krokodil which has a stronger kick and costs about a tenth the price. But while the life expectancy of a Moscow heroin addict is four to seven years, the life expectancy of a krokodil addict is just a year or two.

At one meeting of drug enforcement officials, two regional governors reported that krokodil accounts for about half of all addictions and drug-related deaths in their regions. And in some other areas, krokodil has nearly replaced opiates as the drug of choice.

It is estimated that somewhere between a few hundred thousand and a million people are injecting this deadly drug. Between 2009 and 2011, the amount of krokodil seized by law enforcement increased 23-fold. In just the first three months of 2011, 65 million doses were seized.

Why is it Called Krokodil?

Krokodil gets its name from the fact that the caustic drug causes an addict’s skin to become green, scaly and bumpy like a crocodile’s. If the drug misses a vein and is injected into flesh, that flesh will develop abscesses. It is common for addicts to develop gangrene and require amputations. The flesh on some body parts affected by krokodil injections will rot off completely, leaving bare bone.

Withdrawal is savage, much worse than heroin. Heroin can cause sickness and pain for up to ten days but withdrawal from krokodil can result in a month of unbearable pain. Extremely strong tranquilizers are used during withdrawal so the addict does not pass out from the pain. Doctors dealing with addicts say that this is the strongest level of addiction and the hardest to cure. If a person does manage to get clean from krokodil, they may be left with permanent damage like a speech impediment, vacant gaze and erratic movements.

Or are you a hypocrite and only want CERTAIN drugs made legal?
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No, it means I want our system for managing the disease of chemical dependency managed by public health professionals who have the training and competency to manage and find solutions to this problem at a far lower cost, both human and economic.

I mean no disrespect to law enforcement or the criminal justice system but they are not trained in managing diseases and study after study has demonstrated that if you successfully treat chemical dependency as a disease and a public health problem, then the criminal aspects of drug abuse tend to go away.

What doesn't work is putting shit loads of people in prison. In fact the data shows conclusively this makes the problem worse.
 
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Mott the Hoople said:
No, it means I want our system for managing the disease of chemical dependency managed by public health professionals who have the training and competency to manage and find solutions to this problem at a far lower cost, both human and economic.

I mean no disrespect to law enforcement or the criminal justice system but they are not trained in managing diseases and study after study has demonstrated that if you successfully treat chemical dependency as a disease and a public health problem, then the criminal aspects of drug abuse tend to go away.

What doesn't work is putting shit loads of people in prison. In fact the data shows conclusively this makes the problem worse.
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Since drug addiction requires a person to first try the substance in the first place, I have always hated the idea of wasting the public's money and time on the fucking proles.
 
Damocles said:
I hate to say it, but even Desh can be right on occasion, prisons for profit is simply wrong. The idea that we pay more the longer they keep them, etc. just makes for bad policy and often directly violates the rights of the prisoners. This isn't even remotely partisan either, both parties participate in this fiasco.

I've watched model prisoners suddenly "getting in trouble" just before their parole hearings and ending up in solitary... suddenly they aren't model prisoners any longer and lose the opportunity for release and the prison makes more money. And that is just one example...

It is sickening that the "land of the free" imprisons more people than any other nation in the western world. Truly, we aren't free.
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there are places in human society that capitalism can not be used


this is a perfect example.



YOU MUST FACE that capitalism does not solve all things



this argument alone kills DEAD the fantasy that capitalism is perfect



will you absorb this FACT?
 
It was pointed out over a hundred years ago that the key fault in our prison system is prisons. Is this really the best we can do?
 
Chlorate said:
Since drug addiction requires a person to first try the substance in the first place, I have always hated the idea of wasting the public's money and time on the fucking proles.
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You're probably referring to opiates prescribed for a back problem. Or perhaps barbiturates prescribed for another reason. You've never had a drink in your life, have you?
 
evince said:
there are places in human society that capitalism can not be used


this is a perfect example.



YOU MUST FACE that capitalism does not solve all things



this argument alone kills DEAD the fantasy that capitalism is perfect



will you absorb this FACT?
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You're absolutely right. Capitalism and free markets are excellent mediums of exchange and economic growth but this religious belief by some that they are the solution to everything is absurd.
 
iolo said:
It was pointed out over a hundred years ago that the key fault in our prison system is prisons. Is this really the best we can do?
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I'm open to suggestions but in the real world you bump into a triple axe murderer, serial rapist, white collar sociopaths and Grind you tend to reflect and say "Hmmm it's a good thing we have penitentiaries.".
 
evince said:
there are places in human society that capitalism can not be used

this is a perfect example.

YOU MUST FACE that capitalism does not solve all things

this argument alone kills DEAD the fantasy that capitalism is perfect

will you absorb this FACT?
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will you absorb the fact that capitalism isn't supposed to solve anything? it's not a system to use for solving problems. capitalism is strictly designed for a person to profit on their own work.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
will you absorb the fact that capitalism isn't supposed to solve anything? it's not a system to use for solving problems. capitalism is strictly designed for a person to profit on their own work.
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I'm sure Desh is ok with that. It's how she got rich. Try telling that to free market fanatics like Cawacko and Damo.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Well since you lack empathy then you'd probably be ok with just shooting them.
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I don't have sympathy nor do I empathize with someone that made a choice to do something that causes them problems then expects others to foot the bill and do things to solve what they causes.
 
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