Obama against mandate

USFREEDOM911 said:
Better yet: we can solve unemployment and hunger, by mandating that everyone must get a job and buy food; or else.
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YA! And we should stop people from having to pay auto Insurance, and wear life jackets and seat belts and social security, and property tax and everything else they do to help protect man from their own stupidity.(note sarcasm).

As Obama explains, If health care was affordable, everyone would want in. They wouldn't have to mandate it. People would want in, like here in Canada where we have Free Health care insurance.

The people that would cry the most is the wealthy that have to give away the biggest piece of the pie. And most do not become multi billionaires being charitable.

Anyone that is not rich and does not support Universal health care, have really bought all the mis-information hook, line and sinker.

They dare not say that America does not have the best health care in the world(something they have been indoctrinated to believe from birth), while The international community and also Medical academics in America KNOW otherwise. They may seem anti-American, unpatriotic, face taunting(By the rich of course).
 
wiseones2cents said:
YA! And we should stop people from having to pay auto Insurance, and wear life jackets and seat belts and social security, and property tax and everything else they do to help protect man from their own stupidity.(note sarcasm).

As Obama explains, If health care was affordable, everyone would want in. They wouldn't have to mandate it. People would want in, like here in Canada where we have Free Health care insurance.

The people that would cry the most is the wealthy that have to give away the biggest piece of the pie. And most do not become multi billionaires being charitable.

Anyone that is not rich and does not support Universal health care, have really bought all the mis-information hook, line and sinker.

They dare not say that America does not have the best health care in the world(something they have been indoctrinated to believe from birth), while The international community and also Medical academics in America KNOW otherwise. They may seem anti-American, unpatriotic, face taunting(By the rich of course).
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You were so smart yesterday, now you're all fuckin dumb again.
 
Superfreak said:
1) yes, I believe there is a board for UNJUSTIFIED rate increases. But this is not a cost reducer. It just says there can't be unjustified cost increases. It does nothing to stop continued justified increases in health care costs.
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Have you seen some of the ADS for cancer clinics? They look more like country clubs with rolling lawns and gazebos and ponds. So the question is, "What is justified?"

2) Tell me... who PAYS for the subsidies? Sorry, but these are not cost reducers either.
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Many cost reductions will come naturally. As the "wealthy" realize they're paying high health insurance rates while others are receiving subsidies and receiving the same treatment they aren't going to like it.

One has to keep in mind the goal is universal coverage. What better way to get the "wealthy" on board than to have them see they're subsidizing those who can not pay.

In other words while the cost of medical care/insurance may not be a major concern to those who have the financial resources it will be a concern to them when they realize they're subsidizing others.
 
Onceler said:
I'm not celebrating it. I'm talking about the fact that the bill DOES make it more affordable for the people Obama is talking about in his quote. I'm not justifying it, or endorsing it.

You're trying to make what was being discussed fit what you would like to be discussed. But, we weren't discussing what you would like to be discussed. And it's idiotic - like, bigtime idiotic - for you to jump in the middle and say my comments on what we actually were discussing inane, in the context of the discussion you would prefer we have...
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Actually, it is what is being discussed. It was the actual question asked by Superfreak.

So, basically what you are saying here is that you cannot list any cost reducing measures, and instead listed a bunch of cost-shifting measures then tried to blame others for not "following the conversation of the thread"?

Give it a rest, dude. If you can't list the cost-reducing measures and actually understand that cost-shifting isn't reducing anything, then why input that at all? It didn't speak to the question, it simply tried to distract and dodge it.
 
Yurt said:
its hilarious how nigel is trying to twist obama's word by ridiculously claiming the full quote changes the context or changes his sentence where he is against the mandate. the full quote doesn't take anything away from the sentence, nor does it alter his stance against the mandate.
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It's also hilarious how you are still unable to read. The context definitely changes the sentence, and basically makes the OP moot.
 
so nigel claims obama was not against the mandate, lets see a more full quote:

Both of us want to provide healthcare to all Americans. There’s a slight difference, and her plan is a good one. But, she mandates that everybody buy healthcare. She’d have the government force that every individual buy insurance and I don’t have such a mandate because I don’t think the problem is that people don’t want health insurance, it’s that they can’t afford it. I focus more on lowering costs. This is a modest difference. But, it’s one that she’s (Hillary) tried to elevate, arguing that because I don’t force people to buy healthcare that I’m not insuring everybody. If things were that easy, I could mandate everybody to buy a house, and that would solve the problem of homelessness. It doesn’t. But this is a philosophical disagreement that we have and it’s one that we’re going to continue to talk about.

http://freedomswingspolitics.com/20...n-degeneres-he-is-against-individual-mandate/

care to try again nigel?
 
Yurt said:
so nigel claims obama was not against the mandate, lets see a more full quote:

Both of us want to provide healthcare to all Americans. There’s a slight difference, and her plan is a good one. But, she mandates that everybody buy healthcare. She’d have the government force that every individual buy insurance and I don’t have such a mandate because I don’t think the problem is that people don’t want health insurance, it’s that they can’t afford it. I focus more on lowering costs. This is a modest difference. But, it’s one that she’s (Hillary) tried to elevate, arguing that because I don’t force people to buy healthcare that I’m not insuring everybody. If things were that easy, I could mandate everybody to buy a house, and that would solve the problem of homelessness. It doesn’t. But this is a philosophical disagreement that we have and it’s one that we’re going to continue to talk about.

http://freedomswingspolitics.com/20...n-degeneres-he-is-against-individual-mandate/

care to try again nigel?
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You're a fucking idiot:

NigelTufnel said:
How does it make it more hilarious? In context, it shows that Obama did not support a mandate absent affordability measures and with affordability measures he didn't think one was necessary. I don't really see anything funny in that.
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Fucking ankle-biting half-wit.
 
Damocles said:
Actually, it is what is being discussed. It was the actual question asked by Superfreak.

So, basically what you are saying here is that you cannot list any cost reducing measures, and instead listed a bunch of cost-shifting measures then tried to blame others for not "following the conversation of the thread"?

Give it a rest, dude. If you can't list the cost-reducing measures and actually understand that cost-shifting isn't reducing anything, then why input that at all? It didn't speak to the question, it simply tried to distract and dodge it.
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The "conversation of the thread," as you so dismissively refer to it, was specifically about affordability, because that was the reference Obama made in talking about mandates.

Affordability & cost-cutting are 2 entirely different things. Food stamps make food more affordable for low-income families; they do not reduce the overall cost of food.

Do you think cost-cutting and affordability are the same? Please say yes.
 
Yurt said:
so nigel claims obama was not against the mandate, lets see a more full quote:

Both of us want to provide healthcare to all Americans. There’s a slight difference, and her plan is a good one. But, she mandates that everybody buy healthcare. She’d have the government force that every individual buy insurance and I don’t have such a mandate because I don’t think the problem is that people don’t want health insurance, it’s that they can’t afford it. I focus more on lowering costs. This is a modest difference. But, it’s one that she’s (Hillary) tried to elevate, arguing that because I don’t force people to buy healthcare that I’m not insuring everybody. If things were that easy, I could mandate everybody to buy a house, and that would solve the problem of homelessness. It doesn’t. But this is a philosophical disagreement that we have and it’s one that we’re going to continue to talk about.

http://freedomswingspolitics.com/20...n-degeneres-he-is-against-individual-mandate/

care to try again nigel?
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NigelTufnel said:
You're a fucking idiot:



Fucking ankle-biting half-wit.
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i can't believe you're this stupid...he repeatedly says he is against it, it is a philosophical disagreement...he clearly spells out the difference in his plan vs. hillary's plan....

but you would have us believe the opposite, the OP is correct, and the full quote reinforces the one sentence you stupidly claim is out of context....
 
Yurt: Obama didn't support the individual mandate.

Me: Yeah, I know. He was the only one of the three Democratic candidates that didn't.

Yurt: *Groan* Liar. He didn't support he mandate.

Me: Yeah, I know. That's what I said before.

Yurt: *Groan* Liar. He didn't support he mandate.

Me: Yeah, I know. That's what I said before

Yurt: *Groan* Liar. You're such a lying liar.

Me: *shrug*



Fin.
 
Onceler said:
I answered that; it mainly will come from the rich.

I don't get your argument here. "Affordability" in the context of Obama's remarks, or my own interpretation of the word in almost any context, deals w/ the individuals who actually pay. You're trying to make some weird argument that because OVERALL costs aren't changing much, it's not affecting some vague concept of OVERALL affordability.

With the measures in the bill, the effort is to make it affordable to those individuals & families who have a hard time affording it now...
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1) Health care premiums are going up, not down as a result of Obamacare. While you can point to 'affordability' measures that individually might have a benefit, on the whole Obamacare is going to raise premiums. It is not going to make them more affordable. Obamacare does NOTHING to reduce the overall impact of rising health care costs and insurance premiums. Nothing.

2) There is no 'vague' concept of affordability. Either premiums will go down or they won't. Anyone seeing their premiums going down?
 
NigelTufnel said:
Yurt: Obama didn't support the individual mandate.

Me: Yeah, I know. He was the only one of the three Democratic candidates that didn't.

Yurt: *Groan* Liar. He didn't support he mandate.

Me: Yeah, I know. That's what I said before.

Yurt: *Groan* Liar. He didn't support he mandate.

Me: Yeah, I know. That's what I said before

Yurt: *Groan* Liar. You're such a lying liar.

Me: *shrug*



Fin.
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meltdown?

you're the one who called me liar, you claimed the OP was more than slightly dishonest...and yet now you're the one saying i called you a liar? you're freaked out....you've clearly lost your mind....

you said it was not true that obama doesn't support the mandate, now you're saying its true??? why then is the OP dishonest? he clearly doesn't support the mandate, yet you keep whining about affordability, that doesn't change anything in the OP, nor does it make the OP dishonest.

you fucked up nigel
 
Yurt said:
meltdown?
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?

Yurt said:
you're the one who called me liar, you claimed the OP was more than slightly dishonest...and yet now you're the one saying i called you a liar? you're freaked out....you've clearly lost your mind....
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I never said the OP was honest or dishonest. I said the judge was dishonest in his selective quoting of Obama. It's a misrepresentation of omission


Yurt said:
you said it was not true that obama doesn't support the mandate, now you're saying its true??? why then is the OP dishonest? he clearly doesn't support the mandate, yet you keep whining about affordability, that doesn't change anything in the OP, nor does it make the OP dishonest.
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I said the judge's selective quotation of Obama was dishonest although I said it was true Obama did not support the mandate when he was campaigning for the Democratic nomination. And the judge was dishonest because he failed to provide the full context of the quote necessary to discern Obama's meaning.


Yurt said:
you fucked up nigel
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Thanks.
 
when you said "slightly more than dishonest" you did not have a reference...so you're apparently talkign about the judge...

how is he dishonest? the full quote doesn't change the meaning of the sentence. i also gave you an additional quote where obama repeatedly states he is against the mandate, its a philosophical difference, he does not want to force people to buy insurance....

therefore, it is dishonest of you to claim the quote was not in context, because as we see with more of obama's quotes, the one sentence is completely accurate and in context. nothing dishonest about it, well, except your idiocy in claiming it is slightly more than dishonest.
 
Onceler said:
It's also hilarious how you are still unable to read. The context definitely changes the sentence, and basically makes the OP moot.
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Yurt said:
so nigel claims obama was not against the mandate, lets see a more full quote:

Both of us want to provide healthcare to all Americans. There’s a slight difference, and her plan is a good one. But, she mandates that everybody buy healthcare. She’d have the government force that every individual buy insurance and I don’t have such a mandate because I don’t think the problem is that people don’t want health insurance, it’s that they can’t afford it. I focus more on lowering costs. This is a modest difference. But, it’s one that she’s (Hillary) tried to elevate, arguing that because I don’t force people to buy healthcare that I’m not insuring everybody. If things were that easy, I could mandate everybody to buy a house, and that would solve the problem of homelessness. It doesn’t. But this is a philosophical disagreement that we have and it’s one that we’re going to continue to talk about.

http://freedomswingspolitics.com/20...n-degeneres-he-is-against-individual-mandate/

care to try again nigel?
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you're a retard onceler
 
Superfreak said:
1) Health care premiums are going up, not down as a result of Obamacare. While you can point to 'affordability' measures that individually might have a benefit, on the whole Obamacare is going to raise premiums. It is not going to make them more affordable. Obamacare does NOTHING to reduce the overall impact of rising health care costs and insurance premiums. Nothing.

2) There is no 'vague' concept of affordability. Either premiums will go down or they won't. Anyone seeing their premiums going down?
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From what I understand? Premiums have gone up but coverage has expanded considerably.

Though, I guess that doesn't do much for the ones who couldn't afford good coverage in the first place......

Still. Good health care coverage is a smart investment any way you look at it.

They may have to stop buying McDonalds and their cases of beer, and start spending money on their health which is one of the most important thing in the world. Ask any unhealthy person. Many people take their health for granted.

Obamacare's plan does not do enough to solve the health care issue, though hopefully it is used as a stepping stone to universal health care. That is my hope.
 
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