Minimum wage debate continues

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Rose said:
Good luck. :D Personally, I'm working with a start up before I leave for college - it's a blast, but I there's no certainty of it becoming a source of income for anyone.
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Thank you sir. I've worked in both a large corporate environment and a start-up environment. There are positives to both but I enjoy the entrepreneurial feeling you have at a start-up so I'd highly recommend it if you get the opportunity.

(As an alcoholic the one thing I miss about a large company is there were always people I could drag to happy hour each day. Not any more at my particular company.)
 
cawacko said:
Quote Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
Bottom line: you're STILL preaching the SOS that just doesn't make sense. If a company is doing well, it will hire more people. If the workers have a decent wage so they can pay their rent, buy new clothes, more food, etc., then the overall economy does well.

There is NO such thing as a true "free market" in this country...because if there was then all the current banks would have failed and been replaced with people and institutions who could do the job right and honestly. "Trickle down", the bastard child of the "free market" has been an abject failure.
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Me being a free market guy doesn't mean we have a free market in this county. Trust me I'm well aware of the crony capitalism we practice here. Then stop wasting everyone's time by bringing it up as if it's applicable to the current situation...'cause it ain't!

I've worked a number of years on full commission and I've been laid off before. I get what it is like to not know if you're next paycheck is coming. I know what's it like to not know if you can pay your next month's rent etc. I'm not heartless to those who are in similar situations. Hell I'm practically going through it now again. Then you should know that all that bullshit neocon/trickle down/free market ideology you were spewing against a minimum wage hike to deal with COLA is just that...bullshit That doesn't change my belief that the government fostering an environment (via regulation, tax laws etc.) that encourages innovation and creativity (basically entrepreneurship) leads to the highest standard of living. That allows new businesses to flourish and hire people etc.

So what psychotic libertarian crock are you throwing out now? Because it STILL doesn't change the FACT of what I previously stated.

I am not a believer of high tax rates in which we practice redistribution to try and even things out. A typical false interpretation of what happens when you stop giving tax breaks to top 1-3% or wealthy folks and corporations. Bottom line: there was NO shortage of millionaires in this country when they had a hire tax rate prior to reaganomics. Taxes are how we pay for the "commons", don't cha know. To me that makes the total pie smaller. My goal would be the whole pie growing with more people participating in it.
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You're not making sense.....if rich folks and corporations are NOT putting in a fair shake of tax money into the commons, the the "pie" is indeed smaller, because as recent history has shown, they are NOT "creating jobs", or building roads or bridges...they are setting up off shore accounts, Swiss bank accounts, and out-sourcing jobs like nobody's business.

So again, how on God's green Earth does raising the minimum wage to at least give the working man a shot at dealing with COLA a bad thing?
 
taichi, you good bro? you need a few bucks? We joke on this site but when sh*t gets real we are here for each other.
 
Taichiliberal said:
Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
The sheer insanity of those who are against a minimum wage increase after YEARS of stagnation (in light of an INCREASING COLA), never ceases to amaze me.

It's like this people.....if your workers have a decent amount of money, then they SPEND more! That means PROFITS for other businesses, who may HIGHER more people. And so on, and so on.

Got it? Good.

A poster responded: The stupidity of the above is what amazes me. If you raise the cost of labor across the board, then the costs of goods sold also goes up. You are not changing purchasing power, you are simply shifting the entire wage scale up.

What is truly ironic is so many of those that champion the increase in minimum wage also rail against companies like WalMart.

Let's examine the major flaw in the responding poster's statement: "cost of labor" is in reality the COLA. Description of COLA

COLA is an acronym for cost-of-living adjustment or cost-of-living allowance. Cost-of-living adjustments are raises in pay that cover the cost of inflation, which influences the cost of living expenses such as rent, food, gas and clothing. A COLA can be tied to national, international or geographical data. The Consumer Price Index, which measures the average price change for a set number of consumer items over time, is often used to figure a COLA.
http://smallbusiness.chron.com/cola-terms-payroll-34151.html

So right off the bat the responding poster's claim is DEAD wrong. But his erroneous assertions are the backbone of the "conservative" mantras that support the anti-union, low wage giant like WalMart. Figures. :rolleyes:
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companies that restrict employee hours such as to prevent them from being classified as full time or use salaried people to work free overtime are part of our economy's problem.
 
Don Quixote said:
companies that restrict employee hours such as to prevent them from being classified as full time or use salaried people to work free overtime are part of our economy's problem.
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A friend worked at a company (software) that converted a bunch of IT people from salary to hourly. The IT people used to get annual bonuses as salaried people. As hourly, they weren't qualified for a bonus, but the company told them that overtime would make up for the money.

Friend was not impressed at having to work more hours for the same money.

And even less impressed when, right after the switch, it was announced that no one was allowed to work OT without jumping through approval hoops.

So basically, everyone got a pay cut.

This was 5 years ago or so, when companies were getting sued for classifying people as salary to avoid paying OT.
 
tekkychick said:
A friend worked at a company (software) that converted a bunch of IT people from salary to hourly. The IT people used to get annual bonuses as salaried people. As hourly, they weren't qualified for a bonus, but the company told them that overtime would make up for the money.

Friend was not impressed at having to work more hours for the same money.

And even less impressed when, right after the switch, it was announced that no one was allowed to work OT without jumping through approval hoops.

So basically, everyone got a pay cut.

This was 5 years ago or so, when companies were getting sued for classifying people as salary to avoid paying OT.
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So he didn't quit because?
 
The Dude said:
So he didn't quit because?
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Friend was planning to retire in a few years; had been there awhile; and had some unvested stock options.

Had a coworker at my company go to that company strictly because they paid OT - coworker was putting in a lot of hours at my company, and we don't get paid OT - we're salary in our positions. I didn't have the heart to tell her the she might not get it, because she had already accepted the job and given notice when I heard she was leaving. Should check to see if she's getting OT ...she was in a different area, so maybe she is
 
The Dude said:
Originally Posted by Don Quixote View Post
companies that restrict employee hours such as to prevent them from being classified as full time or use salaried people to work free overtime are part of our economy's problem.
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So are obese people jacking up fit people insurance rates.
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For the last 20 years, you've had the "eternal temp"....people hired on as "temporary" workers paid less than a full time worker and with NO benefits. The allure is that of going from a temp to permanent....but do a little research and you'll see that boon in temp workers.
 
cawacko said:
And much respect to taichi.
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We have our little dust ups from time to time, but we're cool....I just get irritated having lived and seen what reaganomics and the mindset of "minimum wage increase hurts business" has done to the American public....and it ain't good!
 
Don Quixote said:
companies that restrict employee hours such as to prevent them from being classified as full time or use salaried people to work free overtime are part of our economy's problem.
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and you think raising the costs of labor is going to help that situation? Or provoke more of it?
 
Steelplate said:
You're a moron. An influx of extra cash to allow people to.live in their OWN FUCKING COUNTRY is not the equivalent of $100k/year. That's the problem with ignorant fucks like you....you don't think there's any solution besides allowing greedy rich fucks to attain as.much as they can while the masses suffer.

There's only so much room at the top and something's got to give. The poor and working class can't afford anymore, and the VITAL middle class is shrinking at a frightening pace. The money is going into the pockets of the Greedy Bastards at the top of the food chain. But even they have to realize that if all the levels below them collapse, then their wealth isn't worth squat anyway.
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Excuse me if I put everything into a business to start it, should I not reap the benefits of said risk, another thing, if you raise the minimum wage, and wages don't go up across the board, and then prices go up, which they wil,l you are creating a bigger lower class not bringing the lower class up, those of us in the middle class will in essence receive a pay cut, and the rich will continue to get theirs.
 
Don Quixote said:
companies that restrict employee hours such as to prevent them from being classified as full time or use salaried people to work free overtime are part of our economy's problem.
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While I do agree with you, your post appears to carry the undertone of the corporation being a potentially acceptable institution. This is just not the case - it's just not its function. The corporation, as we know, is a means of production and appropriation of wealth - its goal is to generate profit, nothing more, nothing less.
 
Taichiliberal said:
For the last 20 years, you've had the "eternal temp"....people hired on as "temporary" workers paid less than a full time worker and with NO benefits. The allure is that of going from a temp to permanent....but do a little research and you'll see that boon in temp workers.
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and during hard times rarely is there temp to perm

see walmart employment practices
 
cawacko said:
Yes, I like football and that's it. I would do well in the South.

I'm open to hearing your opinion on this.
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It's not just the South.
Football in the midwest is big also.

Thursday night's JV, Fridays Varsity, Saturday College (Go Cornhuskers), and Sunday the NFL.
 
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