PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
well tell me what board you posted it on.......I'll go look....
JESUS IS NOT GOD DEBATE
- Thread starter wiseones2cents
- Start date
well tell me what board you posted it on.......I'll go look....
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
you draw inferences to support your own choices.....nothing there compels your choice.....Jesus is the human incarnation of God......that formed a separateness....yet, as you yourself quoted from John 10, he said I and the Father are one.....he didn't say I and the Father are two.....
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
so, its JPP's fault you're losing the argument?......
wiseones2cents
Verified User
The Bible states we are also one with GOD via the Holy Spirit!
1 John 4:15-16
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 16 We have come to know and have believed the love which God has [a]for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.
As usual you lose!
wiseones2cents
Verified User
This thread. Basically I stated that the word used between Firstborn and Creation is NOT "over" creation as you claim. This discredits your entire argument.lol
G3956
πᾶς
pas
pas
Including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole: - all (manner of, means) alway (-s), any (one), X daily, + ever, every (one, way), as many as, + no (-thing), X throughly, whatsoever, whole, whosoever.
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
how do you reconcile that statement with the fact that the Bible verse says "over".......you're right and the Bible is wrong?....compelling argument for some here, I realize....but does not succeed in rattling my faith.......
by the way....that word is an adjective....."all creation" as in he is over all creation.....or "the whole creation"....
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wiseones2cents
Verified User
Which Bible says over? lol
Colossians 1:15
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
Colossians 1:15
King James Version (KJV)
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Only after contradictions were found did they change it to over in the NEW KJV. Though the word between is NOT over or over all. Therefore it's a faulty interpretation.
G3956
πᾶς
pas
pas
Including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole: - all (manner of, means) alway (-s), any (one), X daily, + ever, every (one, way), as many as, + no (-thing), X throughly, whatsoever, whole, whosoever.
Again! You still keep missing the point that he was the FIRSTBORN of, over, or whatever you want to put, OF CREATION! LOL Firstborn, means there was a time He wasn't!!!
I'm trying very hard to resist calling you names, but boy, do we have a brainwashed one here! Try telling the Jehovah Witnesses that they are not the 144,000 and they will look at you and laugh, because in their sick minds, they are.lol
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
so when they fixed the errors in the KJV, they decided that in that one instance they would intentionally go with a faulty intepretation?......lol.....
NKJV....
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
not to mention the fact you keep ignoring the verses that follow it....
16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.
wiseones2cents
Verified User
I'm losing the argument? ROTFLOL!!! here's a couple of questions for you. How did they fit all the animals on the Arc! If you add up all the ages of the patriarchs it adds up to about 7000 years old and we know the earth is millions of years old. We know dinosaurs roamed the earth before man! The flood story was stolen from the epic of Gilgamesh. The "lord" of the jews was actually a regional warlord that died long ago. Where was the god of the jews when the Romans wiped them out? Where was the god of the jews when the Nazis wiped them out? The god of the jews is dead.lol You probably believe in the partying of the red sea. Listen man you want to believe in fairytales that's fine, but you have to stay within the fairy tale book. LOL
The New Testament says no one has seen the GOD of Jesus, yet in the OT. MANY have seen the god of the jews face to face. Heck Jacob wrestled with him.lol
the god of the jews is all knowing but Moses had to convince him to spare the rebellious jews.lol Doesn't sound like an all knowing god to me! If I really wanted to I would show you thousands of reasons why your beliefs are bullshit!
The Book of Samuel and Chronicles have the exact same events recorded with different numbers and figures. There are discrepancies in genealogy with the book of Chronicles, Luke and Matthew. How can that be if the Bible is "infallible"?lol
If god is the god of the jews, why did god tell the Assyrians to destroy Judah?lol Why didn't he do it himself if he is all powerful?lol
You think I'm losing the argument? I've been taking it easy on you, and still winning. Your just not smart enough to acknowledge it.lol
wiseones2cents
Verified User
They deceivingly fixed it to cover up an obvious contradiction, but as I explained AND demonstrated. The word used between Firstborn and Creation does NOT say "OVER" no mater how much you or the deceivers want it to say that.lol Also I already showed you that the firstborn of the dead is also in error since there were many people raised in the Bible, both the OT and NT! Not to mention that firstborn of the dead and firstborn of creation are two different verses that have nothing to do with each other. Unless you are saying Jesus was born, died and then raised again before creation started. lol
Your making yourself look pretty bad, to most rational thinking people. Only to one as brainwashed as you would believe your laughable apologetics.lol
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
how many did they need to fit in?.....did they need all 37k species of beetle?......would 237 different animals be enough?...
why do you think you should add them up?.....did you study mathematics under Usscher?.......how many years did Adam and Eve spend in the garden?....did Genesis 3 happen the morning after Genesis 2?.....
no, its the same story......the Babylonians were descended from Noah too....
care to document this?.....how many years after his death was the manuscript written?.....
did anyone tell the Jews they've been wiped out?.....They might want to know.....
God is dead. Nietzsche, 1874
Neitzche is dead. God, 1900
Pharoah didn't think it was that great of a party.
some of the errors of the KJV corrected in the NKJV.....yet for some reason you want the corrections to be viewed as the error instead of the correction.....I expect it was just another "they deceivingly fixed to cover up an obvious contradiction"?......
did you think they were genealogies?.....
find someone who argues in favor of infallibility and ask them....
he told the Assyrians to do it and they did, and you think he's not powerful?.....
clearly.....
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
lol......
wiseones2cents
Verified User
I think we have another brainwashed Christian here.lol He cant seem to grasp that Jesus is the FIRSTBORN of all, over, all, of every creation. That literally states He had a beginning and that beginning was BEFORE creation.
The original KJV
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature
Lets see. The word for firstborn is
G4416
πρωτοτόκος
prōtotokos
pro-tot-ok'-os
From G4413 and the alternate of G5088; first born (usually as noun, literally or figuratively): - firstbegotten (-born).
The word for of every(Or as you say over all). Now WHERE THE HECK DO YOU GET OVER ALL from this word? They changed the word to "over all" because the original verse CLEARLY states there was a time when Jesus was not!
G3956
πᾶς
pas
pas
Including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole: - all (manner of, means) alway (-s), any (one), X daily, + ever, every (one, way), as many as, + no (-thing), X throughly, whatsoever, whole, whosoever.
And creature!
G2937
κτίσις
ktisis
ktis'-is
From G2936; original formation (properly the act; by implication the thing, literally or figuratively): - building, creation, creature, ordinance.
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Really? how about we discuss those, what are they?
wiseones2cents
Verified User
Show me where.
Only in your mind. The Bible is one big contradiction! First it CLEARLY states firstborn over all creation. For you to be born you have to have not existed. A concept that your puny brain cannot grasp! And don't say firstborn among the dead, because the verse CLEARLY states firstborn over all creation. it clearly states he is the beginning. Which means he had a start.
This guy is clearly an idiot.
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
same paragraph, dude....Paul explains what "firstborn" means....
uh....
no, it means he WAS the start.....it says everything was created through him, not after him.....
wiseones2cents
Verified User
Well if land was totally submerged? Anything that doesn't fly or breath underwater. Would surely die. I'd say there is a heck of a lot more species then 237, not only would they not fit? The weight would make the arc sink.lol
maybe you can explain why scientists say there is no evidence of a global flood? Teheheheh!
Why wouldn't you add them up? The Bible clearly states how long each patriarch lived! Therefore since Adam's creation till now, the earth would be approximately 7000 years old, and scientists will tell you that's bullshit. Also it is clear dinosaurs inhabited the earth well before 7000 years.
LOL, it's a completely different story! Which was is the infallible one? The Epic of Gilgamesh that came first, or the more exaggerated Noah's arc bullshit story?lol
Sarah means woman of high rank of princess in Hebrew. Therefore it's safe to assume that some powerful king gave Abraham his daughter's hand in marriage and as was customary at the time, and gave Abraham some land(Palestine) as a dowry. This is further supported by the mortal qualities of the god of the jews in the OT.
Again. Where was the god of the jews when the Romans destroyed all of Israel/Jerusalem and oppressed the jews for 1000 years? Where was the god of the jews when Hitler slaughtered them like cattle? I watched a movie that showed the Germans saying where is your god? The same thing was said by the Assyrian King, when he ravaged the land. He basically said to the people, where are your gods to help you....
If you want to believe in the fairy tales of the Bible and the partying of the red sea, that is your problem, but there hasn't been a miracle of that scale in over 2000 years. Where has the god of the jews been?
But if the original Bible was infallible? Why the need to correct it? Maybe the new version is even more fallible.
How do you explain these discrepancies of the so called infallible Bible?lol
In luke? Neri/Shealtiel/Zerubbabel
In Matthew? Jeconiah/Shealtiel/Zerubbabel
In 1 Chronicles Chapter 3? Jeconiah/Pedaiah(Shealtiel is his brother)/ Zerubbabel
If you don't believe in the infallibility of Scripture, it is laughable that you use Scripture to support your beliefs.lol
LOL> It was actually an Assyrian warlord who told his servant to destroy Judah. Because Hezekiah rebelled against the king and stopped paying taxes.
The "Lord god"was the Assyrian King that gave orders for Rabshakeh(Servent of Assyrian King) to Bring Judah to ruins! Hezekiah was a good King, but rebellious towards the King of Assyria.
ROTFLOL! Only in your brainwashed mind.
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
bolded above.....
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
didn't need a total flood....only needed to flood the part where there were people living.....if you DO believe the lists in the bible were genealogies, there had only been about 20 between Adam and Noah, so how many people could there have been.....5000?.....10,000?....the could have all lived in the same valley....
according to you and the Rev. Phelps......
since there weren't two, nothing had to come first....
so your assumptions trump the written account?....
and yet, here we are.....and Rome and Assyria are not....
waiting for you....
But if the original Bible was infallible? Why the need to correct it? Maybe the new version is even more fallible.
you'll have to check with the Rev. Phelps....my denomination teaches inerrancy, not infallibility....
Luke wrote to Greeks and followed the matriarchal line, Matthew to the Jews and followed the patriarchal line....both Mary and Joseph were from the tribe of Judah.....
yes, I understand why you and the Rev. Phelps want to make that argument....