JESUS IS NOT GOD DEBATE

wiseones2cents said:
HE WAS FIRSTBORN OF CREATION!
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/shrugs...so based on something you made up (and continue to repeat after your misrepresentation has been pointed out to you) you come to that conclusion.....yet, you pretend you are rational......your arguments are fallible.....(by the way, my denomination does not teach "infallibity"....they teach "inerrancy".......different.....
 
PostmodernProphet said:
/shrugs...so based on something you made up (and continue to repeat after your misrepresentation has been pointed out to you) you come to that conclusion.....yet, you pretend you are rational......your arguments are fallible.....(by the way, my denomination does not teach "infallibity"....they teach "inerrancy".......different.....
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Difference is I understand English. Firstborn OF creation, means He was the first thing created. Meaning there was a time He did not exist. The fact that you think that in the beginning there was 3 different beings(Father Son and the Holy Spirit) is laughable. Were the Angels created or were they around also?

The only reason the Trinitarian doctrine survived and the Arian doctrine did not is thanks to pagan dictatorship within Church hierarchies. That's why Arian books were burned. And Arians were persecuted.
 
wiseones2cents said:
Difference is I understand English. Firstborn OF creation, means He was the first thing created.
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the problem with your argument is that the Bible does not say "firstborn OF creation"......it says "firstborn OVER creation"......in the same paragraph it says that creation happened THROUGH him....it does not say that he happened through creation.......this is now the fourth time I've pointed this out to you.....given that, why do you pretend you understand English?........
 
PostmodernProphet said:
???....no.....Jesus wasn't God because he was filled with the Holy Spirit.....he was God because he's always BEEN God......
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Yawn. Can you tell my why GOD knew the time and not the son? Sorry, the son cannot be GOD, or the son would have known that info. I'd REALLY step up this debate but having a hard time following because of the very small window in hybrid view! Consider yourself lucky!
 
SAMETHING!!!! Maybe you can explain the difference! The over part is not the contradiction! It's the FIRSTBORN part you fail to explain! It clearly states Jesus was created prior to the rest of GOD's creation!

Here is the word between firstborn and creation! You see the word OVER in there somewhere? You Apologetics are laughable! LOL

G3956
πᾶς
pas
pas
Including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole: - all (manner of, means) alway (-s), any (one), X daily, + ever, every (one, way), as many as, + no (-thing), X throughly, whatsoever, whole, whosoever.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
the fact you deny it simply doesn't change theology.....
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Theology is not a perfect science. Most theology has been proven to be bullshit.lol

Arguing with you is futile. You are in heavy denial.lol I tell you that if Jesus is GOD, He doesn't have to ask GOD to remove His cup. If Jesus is GOD, the Angels wouldn't have to give Him strength/courage. If Jesus is GOD He wouldn't have cried out to GOD on the cross. These are things even a 15 year old can comprehend.lol
 
PostmodernProphet said:
it does not say they aren't "his own teachings"....or that they were "someone else's teachings".......what's your point?.....
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I'm sorry? But you are clearly in denial.LOL


John 7:16 So Jesus answered them and said, “My teaching is not Mine, but His who sent Me.

John 8:28 So Jesus said, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
wrong...the verse does not say "He was raised".....it DOES say "He has risen".....you and I do not have the power to raise ourselves......but then, we aren't God......
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MY GOD! These guys are brainwashed and will warp every word in order to feed their delusions! lol

Acts 3:15
but put to death the Prince of life, the one whom God raised from the dead, a fact to which we are witnesses.


Acts 2:32
This Jesus God raised up again, to which we are all witnesses.

John 21:14
This is now the third time that Jesus was manifested to the disciples, after He was raised from the dead.

Acts 2:24
But God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
wait, does this mean you aren't going to rattle my faith?.....dang, I was looking forward to a good debate.....the longest argument I had with an atheist lasted over 500 pages.....you haven't even warmed up yet......I guess your arguments weren't as good as you thought.....
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Actually I don't like the small window in the threaded and hybrid mode! Hard to follow the debates! Though I've decided to continue to rattle your cage. :)
 
wiseones2cents said:
Yawn. Can you tell my why GOD knew the time and not the son? Sorry, the son cannot be GOD, or the son would have known that info. I'd REALLY step up this debate but having a hard time following because of the very small window in hybrid view! Consider yourself lucky!
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twice?....no need....just go back and reread the post where I explained it to you before......
 
wiseones2cents said:
You see the word OVER in there somewhere?
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yes.....
15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
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the entire passage contradicts your claim.....
 
PostmodernProphet said:
then you should be able to point to the passage in John in which he makes that "perfectly clear"......
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I already did! Go find it! Like you told me! John makes it CLEAR in the Bible that Jesus is NOT GOD! Here I will post a few more verses.

GOD sanctified Jesus. Why would Jesus need sanctifying if He is GOD??lol Jesus clearly explains that He is SON OF GOD!

John 10:30-36

New American Standard Bible (NASB)


30 I and the Father are one.”

31 The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, “I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?” 33 The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.” 34 Jesus answered them, “Has it not been written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? 35 If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), 36 do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?



These clearly state that Jesus is NOT GOD! They seen Jesus though they did NOT see GOD.


John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him


John 5:37 And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form.


John 6:46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
it must be your small window.....the "rattle" is not being felt....
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Actually I have a 28 inch screen. Your too brainwashed to feel the rattle but anyone intelligent watching this debate knows you are losing the debate. Also if the board's format were easier to follow I would REALLY show you how bullshit some of your beliefs are. Although I'm sure it would be time wasted. I've dealt with enough brainwashed religious fanatics to know this.lol
 
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