Gun Nut KILLS Daughter

Damocles said:
Anyway, I'll pull this back in.

I'm truly horrified for this woman. I never want to have to face the fact that I killed my own daughter. Because of that I took classes once I had a family to find out what the best means to do that.

It is unlikely I'll ever be using a gun in my house at night, the dogs are far more likely to handle the problem before I get there and will know, even if it is dark, if the person belongs in the house. Shoot they even know if it is their car coming up the driveway and will start barking at strangers just approaching the house in a vehicle, let alone somebody that comes into the house.

However, taking the class was one of the smartest things I did. It made me think more about what to do, and helped me to make a plan of action rather than just wake up and grab a gun and start hunting people in my house. I have yet to need to take any action of the kind. The one time one of my daughters entered the house late at night the dogs made it very clear they were happy they were home rather than upset that a stranger had entered the house. It was easy to know, and I'm glad for that. I don't fear that anybody will enter my home. Shoot most people in our area don't even lock their doors.

Anyway, I'm getting all testy and that is not me and really rather useless. Time to start just answering your questions rather than getting all riled and sarcastic (though I do love sarcasm). Sorry about that, USF. I'll be more direct and without nasty sarcasm from this point on. At least in this thread.

If my dogs were not there, I would walk the pattern, check to ensure my daughters were where I think they are, and then move on. As I said before my daughters have also been informed of the plan, know the pattern and know to answer immediately if asked and why they need to. I also have different phrases just in case they were under duress when they answer. Not because I am paranoid but because the class made it clear that you want to be very sure before you shoot anybody as you have nearly a 100% chance to shoot somebody you didn't want to shoot if you are not prepared and take action without knowledge.

Why would I call the daughter that is now outside the house? Because I'd want to know. Why wouldn't I care if the intruder hears me on the phone? Because I think they would likely hear me preparing the gun regardless and may leave just based on knowing I am aware of their presence...

Anyway, USF. I prepared a plan and would follow it. This woman wishes she had. I recommend you make one. I do all of these things because a person I trust helped me to prepare a plan of action for scenarios I would not normally think of as I am not really all that paranoid.
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Makes sense...
Dogs are great for home security...
 
Damocles said:
I particularly, for the sake of your family, want you to pay attention to that last sentence and do it. Otherwise some night somebody will get up for a snack and be walking in the dark and your stupid ass will just shoot them because they were "approaching you in the dark".
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That's it Damo.
Instead of addressing the questions posed, switch it to the poster and appear indignant about being questioned. :good4u:
 
Damocles said:
Indeed, they don't even necessarily have to be trained for it. Their instincts are more often than not enough to warn you long before somebody enters the house.
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What intruder would fuck with a house that has dogs?
Better than a gun for peace of mind in my opinion...
 
Damocles said:
Anyway, I'll pull this back in.

I'm truly horrified for this woman. I never want to have to face the fact that I killed my own daughter. Because of that I took classes once I had a family to find out what the best means to do that.

I prepared a plan and would follow it. This woman wishes she had. I recommend you make one. I do all of these things because a person I trust helped me to prepare a plan of action for scenarios I would not normally think of as I am not really all that paranoid.
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Well, damo, if you ever lose a child tragically as this woman did, and I hope you never do, you'll know and come to realize a few things.

You'll think about things like...if I just had a light turned on...if they had just turned a light on...if they had come home earlier...if I didn't make them get those brakes checked and did it myself...if I had just taught them better...if I had just stopped and took a leak like I wanted to I would not have been in harms way...if I wouldn't have let them do that...if I wouldn't have done that... etc...

Then, after dwelling on or arm-chair quarterbacking the events of your entire life for an answer to what could have happened other than what did happen, you may come to realize that the world and life are not perfect.

And no matter how much you prepare for what could happen, decisions that you make in the blink of an eye and decisions that you spend a life making are very much the same.

You might then... well, life happens.
 
Damocles said:
Anyway, I'll pull this back in.

I'm truly horrified for this woman. I never want to have to face the fact that I killed my own daughter. Because of that I took classes once I had a family to find out what the best means to do that.

It is unlikely I'll ever be using a gun in my house at night, the dogs are far more likely to handle the problem before I get there and will know, even if it is dark, if the person belongs in the house. Shoot they even know if it is their car coming up the driveway and will start barking at strangers just approaching the house in a vehicle, let alone somebody that comes into the house.

However, taking the class was one of the smartest things I did. It made me think more about what to do, and helped me to make a plan of action rather than just wake up and grab a gun and start hunting people in my house. I have yet to need to take any action of the kind. The one time one of my daughters entered the house late at night the dogs made it very clear they were happy they were home rather than upset that a stranger had entered the house. It was easy to know, and I'm glad for that. I don't fear that anybody will enter my home. Shoot most people in our area don't even lock their doors.

Anyway, I'm getting all testy and that is not me and really rather useless. Time to start just answering your questions rather than getting all riled and sarcastic (though I do love sarcasm). Sorry about that, USF. I'll be more direct and without nasty sarcasm from this point on. At least in this thread.

If my dogs were not there, I would walk the pattern, check to ensure my daughters were where I think they are, and then move on. As I said before my daughters have also been informed of the plan, know the pattern and know to answer immediately if asked and why they need to. I also have different phrases just in case they were under duress when they answer. Not because I am paranoid but because the class made it clear that you want to be very sure before you shoot anybody as you have nearly a 100% chance to shoot somebody you didn't want to shoot if you are not prepared and take action without knowledge.

Why would I call the daughter that is now outside the house? Because I'd want to know. Why wouldn't I care if the intruder hears me on the phone? Because I think they would likely hear me preparing the gun regardless and may leave just based on knowing I am aware of their presence...

Anyway, USF. I prepared a plan and would follow it. This woman wishes she had. I recommend you make one. I do all of these things because a person I trust helped me to prepare a plan of action for scenarios I would not normally think of as I am not really all that paranoid.
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I appreciate that you have a plan, that you can use to protect your family; but the woman in the OP did not have dogs, she woke up, and saw someone approaching her.

If it had been an intruder and she had been murdered, would that make the tragedy better; because people could then all agree that at least she didn't shoot a family member.
 
ChoppedLiver said:
Well, damo, if you ever lose a child, family member, loved one, friend, tragically as this woman did, and I hope you never do, you'll know and come to realize a few things.

You'll think about things like...if I just had a light turned on...if they had just turned a light on...if they had come home earlier...if I didn't make them get those brakes checked and did it myself...if I had just taught them better...if I had just stopped and took a leak like I wanted to I would not have been in harms way...if I wouldn't have let them do that...if I wouldn't have done that... etc...

Then, after dwelling on or arm-chair quarterbacking the events of your entire life for an answer to what could have happened other than what did happen, you may come to realize that the world and life isn't perfect.

And no matter how much you prepare for what could happen, decisions that you make in the blink of an eye and decisions that you spend a life making are very much the same.

You might then... well, life happens.
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You are too late. I learned that lesson.

I also learned that preparing is far better than not and to the person who has shot their own daughter "c'est la vie" isn't good enough. This could be avoided, I have explained why it wouldn't have happened this way in my house. What's your plan?
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
I appreciate that you have a plan, that you can use to protect your family; but the woman in the OP did not have dogs, she woke up, and saw someone approaching her.

If it had been an intruder and she had been murdered, would that make the tragedy better; because people could then all agree that at least she didn't shoot a family member.
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If it hadn't and she had simply asked would her daughter be alive today? This belief that she had no other choice is not only perplexing to me, but your insistence that it could not be avoided because it was dark is absurd. With or without dogs, I would not shoot at somebody in my house without following the plan first. This would include a simple question that she definitely had enough time to ask.
 
Damocles said:
Indeed, they don't even necessarily have to be trained for it. Their instincts are more often than not enough to warn you long before somebody enters the house.
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Our Lab mix, we bring in at night and he's very vocal; even is someone comes onto the porch.

We just had our little Shiatsu mix die; but even she would alert us, if anyone came around
Many a time she alerted us to something and I was able to chase stray dogs off of the porch, who were trying to get at the cats.

Off topic:
My wife called me one time, while I was in town, and said that Lady had been barking and when she opened the door, there was a pit-bull mix trying to get the cats.
When she tried to shoo it away, it growled at her; so she shut the door and called me.
By the time I got home, it had left.
I called the cops and reported the incident and told them that since it growled at my wife, I was a little uncomfortable with it coming back and request that the animal control officer look around our area.
The dispatcher told me that without the animal being contained, there was nothing they would or could do.
I told her fine and that if it came back, I would just stick the barrel of my shotgun against it's head, splatter it's brains all over the place and then call them back to report the dog was now contained.
She then began telling me that I would be in trouble for doing so and I reminded her that as a property owner, I had the right to protect my family and property; which included pets and / or livestock.

Had an Officer show up within 10 minutes, took the description of the dog (from my wife) and we never saw the dog again.
 
Damocles said:
You are too late. I learned that lesson.

I also learned that preparing is far better than not and to the person who has shot their own daughter "c'est la vie" isn't good enough. This could be avoided, I have explained why it wouldn't have happened this way in my house. What's your plan?
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It's easy to live in a perfect world until you find out that it actually isn't.

Like I said... and you missed, decisions that you make in the blink of an eye and decisions that you spend a life making are very much the same.
 
LOL. You did right there though. It doesn't do to mess around when aggressive dogs come onto your property. I was on a firefighter call where four pit bulls had packed and attacked and killed a woman. It was not pleasant... We had to wait for the cops to kill the pack leader and contain them before we could even get to the victim to begin trying to help.

They had first tried the next door neighbor (who lived a mile or so down the road) and trapped a man in the back of his pickup truck after he shot one of them with a shotgun. It didn't kill the dog and they still attacked but left after they could not get into the back of the truck. He was the original call... "Man with dog bite"... Thought it was going to be an easy one when we got in the rescue and started out.
 
Damocles said:
If it hadn't and she had simply asked would her daughter be alive today? This belief that she had no other choice is not only perplexing to me, but your insistence that it could not be avoided because it was dark is absurd. With or without dogs, I would not shoot at somebody in my house without following the plan first. This would include a simple question that she definitely had enough time to ask.
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I never have said that there wasn't something else that could have been done; but saying "Darling, is that you" alerts the intruder as to her location and opens up the possibility of her being murdered.

Since you asked an "if" question", please allow me the same.
If it had been an intruder and she had simply asked, is it possible that she could have been murdered?

When we have everyone home and I'm closing the house up for the night, I make sure that the chain locks are engaged.
That way if someone does get the door unlocked, they're not just going to walk in.
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
I never have said that there wasn't something else that could have been done; but saying "Darling, is that you" alerts the intruder as to her location and opens up the possibility of her being murdered.

Since you asked an "if" question", please allow me the same.
If it had been an intruder and she had simply asked, is it possible that she could have been murdered?

When we have everyone home and I'm closing the house up for the night, I make sure that the chain locks are engaged.
That way if someone does get the door unlocked, they're not just going to walk in.
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It's possible, but not likely. An intruder coming in isn't more likely to kill you if you ask, "Is that you?" In fact most intruders don't want to be discovered and would flee because the question is asked. Statistically, somebody who wanted to murder you and was approaching you in your bed would have already acted in some way. It also benefits you and makes it more likely they'll flee if they think somebody else may also be in the house and may be aware of their presence.

She had time, and if she had a plan, she would have a living family member. She did not, but should have. Her job itself would tell her that she was more likely to kill somebody who lived there than an intruder.
 
Also I asked an "if" question because you asked an "if" question. You have asked me what I think she should have done differently. I believe I have adequately answered.
 
Damocles said:
LOL. You did right there though. It doesn't do to mess around when aggressive dogs come onto your property. I was on a firefighter call where four pit bulls had packed and attacked and killed a woman. It was not pleasant... We had to wait for the cops to kill the pack leader and contain them before we could even get to the victim to begin trying to help.

They had first tried the next door neighbor (who lived a mile or so down the road) and trapped a man in the back of his pickup truck after he shot one of them with a shotgun. It didn't kill the dog and they still attacked but left after they could not get into the back of the truck. He was the original call... "Man with dog bite"... Thought it was going to be an easy one when we got in the rescue and started out.
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Another time we had two dogs get into the back yard, pit bulls again, and they killed two of my cats.
Made a call to the Police and dispatcher tried telling me the same thing, that I mentioned in my other post.
Told her the same thing and told her I knew where the dogs lived.

An Officer showed up, with ten minutes again, and he followed me around the corner of the block in his car, to where the dogs were.
The MINUTE he got out of his car, both dogs charged out of the yard and stopped.
Without saying anything, we moved about 15 feet apart and so did both dogs.
I stay focused on the one that singled me out and I could tell by the body language that he was going to attack.
I was next to a truck and took a quick glance to see if there was anything in the back, that I could use as a weapon; but nada.
He kept tensing up and I figured my only chance was to sacrifice my left arm, lifting him off the ground, pin him to the truck bed and choke him to death with my right hand; but all of a sudden, BANG and he took off back into the yard.
Looked over and the Cop had shot the second dog, through it's right eye, when it was about 5 feet from him.

The Officer called it in (shots fired), other cars arrived, I filled out an incident report, and told the field Supervisor that in my opinion, the Cop had no other choice.

The searched and found the other dog, had animal control impound it, and ticketed the owner for having two dangerous animals and allowing them to run loose.

The really sad part is, is that the Officer had to allow the shot dog to just bleed out; because it was no longer a threat and he couldn't shoot it again.
 
Damocles said:
It's possible, but not likely. An intruder coming in isn't more likely to kill you if you ask, "Is that you?" In fact most intruders don't want to be discovered and would flee because the question is asked. Statistically, somebody who wanted to murder you and was approaching you in your bed would have already acted in some way. It also benefits you and makes it more likely they'll flee if they think somebody else may also be in the house and may be aware of their presence.

She had time, and if she had a plan, she would have a living family member. She did not, but should have. Her job itself would tell her that she was more likely to kill somebody who lived there than an intruder.
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I'm going to disagree with you here; because most of the reports that I've read, have the intruder using force against the person and even other members in the house.

I'm sorry that her daughter is dead; since neither of us were there, we don't know what the mother was thinking.
There's also a good possibility that she was concerned about what this unknown intruder might do to the rest of her family.
 
Damocles said:
Also I asked an "if" question because you asked an "if" question. You have asked me what I think she should have done differently. I believe I have adequately answered.
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Your conclusion is arrived at, by your thinking and second guessing her.
Neither of us were there and unless we're ever in a similar situation, we really can't say what either of us would do,.
 
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