Good article from Forbes: Tax cuts DO NOT create jobs

[Mott the Hoople]

Oh I agree with you completely on this one.

Without the EPA, anyone could dump anything they like on their own property.

And on other peoples property. They not only could, they did and that was what lead to the creation of the EPA.

Here's the primary logic behind anti-pollution regulations. People as individuals have private property rights and people as groups have certain public property rights and no individual or group has the right to damage another person or groups private or public property with their trash/waste/hazardous waste. It is EPA's role and function to protect both human health and the environment while preserving private and public property rights.

 

[Alias]

Who the fuck said he did? I sure as hell didn't. Can't you even stay on topic or do you have ADD? I asked you a simple question, can you please try to answer it? Are you saying that deregulation had nothing to do with the 2008 economic collapse?

It's more than deregulation. Corrupt liberal policies by corrupt lefty politicians like Barney Frank and Dodd.

 

[Rune]

Bush isn't the problem. That's all I'm saying, you stupid little cocksucker.

Civil.

 

[Guns Guns Guns]

Bush promised jobs and prosperity when he pushed for tax cuts.

Where are they?

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Taxation compared to annual per-capita GDP growth in the OECD countries from over a 30 year period.

Unemployment compared to tax rate in the states.

Again, if it exists at all, it's difficult to distinguish it from noise.

It's hard to argue with his data Yurt. Neither chart shows a correlaton, statistically speaking.

 

[zappasguitar]

Bush promised jobs and prosperity when he pushed for tax cuts.

Where are they?

Bush also promised that Iraq had WMD's and that he'd get Osama bin Laden...two more claims he made that turned out to be lies...just like his claim that "lower taxes=more jobs".

 

[Guns Guns Guns]

It's hard to argue with his data Yurt. Neither chart shows a correlaton, statistically speaking.

Will the righties ever offer any evidence to support their claim that tax cuts create jobs?

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

It's hard to argue with his data Yurt. Neither chart shows a correlaton, statistically speaking.

if you two want to stick with that theory, then the theory that tax cuts "do not" create jobs is also impossible to tell from the noise.

why is it you two won't apply the same standard?

 

[Guns Guns Guns]

If tax cuts create jobs, and we've had 10 years of unbroken tax cuts, where are the jobs?

 

[Mott the Hoople]

It's more than deregulation. Corrupt liberal policies by corrupt lefty politicians like Barney Frank and Dodd.

Interpretation - I've been pwned and can't answer the question so I'm going to try and distort the truth.

Dude, you're just a partisan hack. You don't care what the facts or the truth are or wether or not we have good governance or not as long as you can rationalize your own personal beliefs. Good luck with that.

 

[Alias]

Bush also promised that Iraq had WMD's and that he'd get Osama bin Laden...two more claims he made that turned out to be lies...just like his claim that "lower taxes=more jobs".

Oh c'mon. Dems thought the same thing about WMDs, even before bush became President and even after 9/11. I've show the quotes, I can show them again if you need them.

We did get Osama. Doesn't matter who occupied the Oval Office at the time.

I hope you can do better that this. I have faith in ya.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

if you two want to stick with that theory, then the theory that tax cuts "do not" create jobs is also impossible to tell from the noise.

why is it you two won't apply the same standard?

Well, yea....that too would be true. The data would not support that correlation either.

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

Well, yea....that too would be true. The data would not support that correlation either.

thanks mott. appreciate the intellectual honesty.

then you agree the OP cannot be substantiated?

 

[Mott the Hoople]

thanks mott. appreciate the intellectual honesty.

then you agree the OP cannot be substantiated?

Well that depends on how you look at it. If you draw the conclusion that the OP is stating definatively that lowering taxes does not create jobs, I would agree. That cannot be substantiated because there is no correlation. Conversely, if you draw the conclusion that the OP is stating that their is no correlation between tax rate and job creation, then I'd say that "lack of correlation" could be substantiated.

I think what can be concluded by this data is that tax rates are not a significant driver in job creation. That is not to say that they don't play a role, just not a large one. I would rather see a chart on how profits drive job creation. We are currently in a very odd situation. You would think that large profits would correlate to job creation but currenly corporations in the USA are making record profits but job creation has been stagnant. I wonder what the data has to say about that?

 

[zappasguitar]

Well that depends on how you look at it. If you draw the conclusion that the OP is stating definatively that lowering taxes does not create jobs, I would agree. That cannot be substantiated because there is no correlation. Conversely, if you draw the conclusion that the OP is stating that their is no correlation between tax rate and job creation, then I'd say that "lack of correlation" could be substantiated.

I think what can be concluded by this data is that tax rates are not a significant driver in job creation. That is not to say that they don't play a role, just not a large one. I would rather see a chart on how profits drive job creation. We are currently in a very odd situation. You would think that large profits would correlate to job creation but currenly corporations in the USA are making record profits but job creation has been stagnant. I wonder what the data has to say about that?

The reason corporations are seeing record profits but doing virtually no hiring is simple.

Businesses don't like the fact they must expend funds to comply with regulations designed to protect people other than it's shareholders.

Business owners understand that if they are to ever remove those pesky regulatory roadblocks to even greater profits, they are going to need the help of business friendly Republicans.

Therefore it is incumbent on them to slow the economy down as much as possible while Democrats are in charge. Horde their profits and do virtually no hiring, so unemployment remains high.They can then claim(falsely) that it is over-regulation that is dragging down the economy.

 

[Guns Guns Guns]

The reason corporations are seeing record profits but doing virtually no hiring is simple. Businesses don't like the fact they must expend funds to comply with regulations designed to protect people other than it's shareholders. Business owners understand that if they are to ever remove those pesky regulatory roadblocks to even greater profits, they are going to need the help of business friendly Republicans. Therefore it is incumbent on them to slow the economy down as much as possible while Democrats are in charge. Horde their profits and do virtually no hiring, so unemployment remains high.They can then claim(falsely) that it is over-regulation that is dragging down the economy.

I disagree.


IMO, those tactics would require a degree of collusion between multitudes of businesses that is simply infeasible.


Businesses hire to produce supply, when they see demand.


Right now, many consumers who are employed are reluctant to spend because of uncertainty about keeping their jobs, and those without jobs have little to spend.


That leaves government, and given the current state of affairs in the House, businesses that count on the government for demand are also reluctant to hire because the governments' buying power is uncertain.


Businesses that service other businesses are likewise seeing reduced demand, for the reasons stated above.

 

[zappasguitar]

I disagree.


IMO, those tactics would require a degree of collusion between multitudes of businesses that is simply infeasible.


Businesses hire to produce supply, when they see demand.


Right now, many consumers who are employed are reluctant to spend because of uncertainty about keeping their jobs, and those without jobs have little to spend.


That leaves government, and given the current state of affairs in the House, businesses that count on the government for demand are also reluctant to hire because the governments' buying power is uncertain.


Businesses that service other businesses are likewise seeing reduced demand, for the reasons stated above.

If no one is spending, where are these record profits coming from? If businesses are recording record profits, then demand must be fairly high.

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

Well that depends on how you look at it. If you draw the conclusion that the OP is stating definatively that lowering taxes does not create jobs, I would agree. That cannot be substantiated because there is no correlation. Conversely, if you draw the conclusion that the OP is stating that their is no correlation between tax rate and job creation, then I'd say that "lack of correlation" could be substantiated.

I think what can be concluded by this data is that tax rates are not a significant driver in job creation. That is not to say that they don't play a role, just not a large one. I would rather see a chart on how profits drive job creation. We are currently in a very odd situation. You would think that large profits would correlate to job creation but currenly corporations in the USA are making record profits but job creation has been stagnant. I wonder what the data has to say about that?

did you read the OP? it is emphatically stating that tax cuts do not create jobs. i find it amusing the lengths you go to in order to defend the OP, while going to no such lengths to defend the opposite view, given, you apply the standard to both. also, my statement was not definitive, yet you first pounced on it by agreeing with WM.

there is data that shows at times tax cuts do create jobs. to claim that always cutting taxes creates jobs, or that always keeping taxes at the same rate or raising them, creates jobs is equally incorrect.

 

[Rune]

Where is the data that shows at times tax cuts do create jobs?

 

[Guns Guns Guns]

If no one is spending, where are these record profits coming from? If businesses are recording record profits, then demand must be fairly high.

Excellent question.


Profits do not necessarily derive from increased production associated with demand. In fact, layoffs and plant closings can produce a short-term profit.


Price increases can yield increased profit even as aggregate demand shrinks or flatlines.


Profits can derive from "write-downs", "write-offs", "spin-offs", "charges against earnings", amortization, tax breaks and a host of other accounting mechanisms that reflect reduced operating costs.


These sorts of profirs are not sustainable indefinitely, but keep in mind that many profitable enterprises sell goods and/or services globally, and some economies are actually growing, with governments investing heavily in the future.