Good article from Forbes: Tax cuts DO NOT create jobs

How do increased govt regulations help increase profits?

Who says they did, Failias?

You fail again.

Why should businesses expand when they’re not using the capacity they already have?

The bursting of the housing bubble and the overhang of household debt have left consumer spending depressed and many businesses with more capacity than they need and no reason to add more.

Business investment always responds strongly to the state of the economy, and given how weak our economy remains you shouldn’t be surprised if investment remains low.

If anything, business spending has been stronger than one might have predicted given slow growth and high unemployment.



http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/30/opinion/krugman-phony-fear-factor.html?_r=1
 
Hey Pavo. I have a proposition for you. If we get rid of EPA can I buy the property adjoining yours, dig a hole, and dump this 55 gal drum of methyl ethyl ketone I have into it?

Using an extreme fantasy isn't an argument. The fact is this administration is choking businesses and preventing them from expanding, thus preventing them from hiring. We need to scale back the regulations that are hurting business. Simple stuff.
 
Who says they did, Failias?

You fail again.

Why should businesses expand when they’re not using the capacity they already have?

The bursting of the housing bubble and the overhang of household debt have left consumer spending depressed and many businesses with more capacity than they need and no reason to add more.

Business investment always responds strongly to the state of the economy, and given how weak our economy remains you shouldn’t be surprised if investment remains low.

If anything, business spending has been stronger than one might have predicted given slow growth and high unemployment.



http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/30/opinion/krugman-phony-fear-factor.html?_r=1

This administration is choking business with regulations and the health care reform act. Repeal and cut back govt crap so business will expand. Simple stuff.
 
Using an extreme fantasy isn't an argument. The fact is this administration is choking businesses and preventing them from expanding, thus preventing them from hiring. We need to scale back the regulations that are hurting business. Simple stuff.

If it's simple, provide some evidence to back up your assertions.

Or will you suddenly claim you were being sarcastic?
 
I'm not sure if tax cuts directly affect the job market, but I would say at this point that fiscal responsibility in general will definitely affect hiring, especially now. The gov't's efforts to balance the budget in the '90's helped that boom. It inspired more confidence among investors; when venture capitalists are putting their money into start-ups & other business opportunities, people hire.

I think there is a general feeling after the past decade that things are just out of control. The spending bills in the Bush admin started things rolling, then the wars, & so on & so on. There has been very little talk of cutting meaningful spending, or balancing the budget.

The ship isn't going to just right itself on its own at this point. We can't just raise taxes on the rich & hope for the best. Investors have no confidence at this point that gov't has any clue regarding some sort of return to fiscal responsibility.
 
Jesus fucking christ. Were you hiding under a fucking rock in 2008 when deregulation of investment banking nearly fucking collapsed the worlds economy?

Mohammed fucking a camel. Were you hiding under your momma's skirt during the Clinton administration or fucking your rubber ducky?


MELTDOWNS AND MYTHS

The trouble with the world is not that people know too little, but that they know so many things that aren't true." -- attributed to Mark Twain

Easy answers are seldom correct ones. That principle seems to be at work as the nation struggles to discover the causes of the financial crisis now rocking the economy. Looking for a simple and politically convenient villain, many politicians have blamed deregulation by the Bush Administration.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, for instance, stated last month that "the Bush Administration's eight long years of failed deregulation policies have resulted in our nation's largest bailout ever, leaving the American taxpayers on the hook potentially for billions of dollars."[1] Similarly, presidential candidate Barack Obama asserted in the second presidential debate that "the biggest problem in this whole process was the deregulation of the financial system."[2]

But there is one problem with this answer: Financial services were not deregulated during the Bush Administration. If there ever was an "era of deregulation" in the financial world, it ended long ago. And the changes made then are for the most part non-controversial today.

Basic Regulatory Structures Never in Doubt

In a literal sense, financial services were never "deregulated," nor was there ever a serious attempt to do so. Few analysts have ever proposed the elimination of the regulatory structures in place to ensure the soundness and transparency of banks. Simply put, the job of bank examiner was never threatened.

More typically, of course, the word deregulation has been used as shorthand to describe the repeal or easing of particular rules. To the extent there was a heyday of such deregulation, it was in the 1970s and 1980s. It was at this time that economists -- and consumer activists -- began to question many longstanding restrictions on financial services.

The most important such restrictions were rules banning banks from operating in more than one state. Such rules were largely eliminated by 1994 through state and federal action. Few observers lament their passing today, and because regional and nationwide banks are far better able to balance risk, this "deregulation" has helped mitigate, rather than contribute to, the instability of the system.

Gramm-Leach-Bliley and Beyond

The next major "deregulation" of financial services was the repeal of the Depression-era prohibition on banks engaging in the securities business. The ban was formally ended by the 1999 Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, which followed a series of decisions by regulators easing its impact.

While not without controversy, the net effect of Gramm-Leach-Bliley has likely been to alleviate rather than further the current financial crisis.

In fact, President Bill Clinton -- who signed the reform bill into law -- defended the legislation in a recent interview, saying, "I don't see that signing that bill had anything to do with the current crisis. Indeed, one of the things that has helped stabilize the current situation as much as it has is the purchase of Merrill Lynch by Bank of America, which was much smoother than it would have been if I hadn't signed that bill."[3]

In 2000, Congress also passed legislation that, among other things, clarified that certain kinds of financial instruments were not regulated by the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC). Among these were "credit default swaps," which have played a role in this year's meltdown. Whether this law constituted "deregulation" is not clear, since the pre-legislation status of these instruments was uncertain. Nor is it a given that CFTC regulation of their trading would have avoided the financial crisis. In fact, many policymakers, including Clinton Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin, argued that their regulation would do more harm than good.

In the nine years since that legislation -- including the eight years of the Bush presidency -- Congress has enacted no further legislation easing burdens financial services industry.

Regulatory Agency Trends

But what of the regulatory agencies? Did they pursue a deregulatory agenda during the Bush Administration? Again, the answer seems to be no.

In terms of rulemaking -- the promulgation of specific rules by regulatory agencies -- the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) is by far the most active among agencies in the financial realm. Based on data from the Government Accountability Office, the SEC completed 23 proceedings since the beginning of the Bush Administration that resulted in a substantive and major change (defined as an economic effect of $100 million or more) in regulatory burdens. Of those, only eight -- about a third -- lessened burdens.[4] Perhaps surprisingly, the Bush record in this regard is actually less deregulatory than that of the Clinton Administration, which during its second term lessened burdens in nine out of 20 such rulemaking proceedings.

Other financial agencies have been far less active in making formal rule changes. The Federal Reserve reports five major rulemakings in the database since 1996 -- four of which were deregulatory. The only rule change reported by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation and the Controller of the Currency is the 1997 adoption of new capital reserve standards, an action with mixed consequences.

Of course, much of the work of regulators takes place in day-to-day activities rather than in formal rulemaking activities. For that reason, it is also helpful to look at the budgets of regulators.

These also show little sign of reduced regulatory activity during the Bush years. The total budget of federal finance and banking regulators (excluding the SEC) increased from approximately $2 billion in FY 2000 to almost $2.3 billion in FY 2008 in constant 2000 dollars. The SEC's budget during the same time period jumped from $357 million in 2000 to a whopping $629 million in 2008. During the same time period, total staffing at these agencies remained steady, at close to 16,000.[5]

A False Narrative

In the wake of the financial crisis gripping the nation, it is tempting to blame "deregulation" for triggering the problem. After all, if the meltdown were caused by the ill-advised elimination of necessary rules, the answer would be easy: Restore those rules.

But that storyline is simply not true. Not only was there was little deregulation of financial services during the Bush years, but most of the regulatory reforms achieved in earlier years mitigated, rather than contributed to, the crisis.

This, of course, does not mean that no regulatory changes should be considered. In the wake of the current crisis, debate over the scope and method of regulation in financial markets is inevitable and, in fact, necessary. But this cannot be a debate over returning to a regulatory Nirvana that never existed. Any new regulatory system would be just that -- complete with all the uncertainty and prospects for unintended consequences that define such a system. Policymakers must not pretend otherwise.

James L. Gattuso is Senior Research Fellow in Regulatory Policy in the Thomas A. Roe Institute for Economic Policy Studies at The Heritage Foundation.

http://www.heritage.org/research/re...s-did-deregulation-cause-the-financial-crisis
 
Using an extreme fantasy isn't an argument. The fact is this administration is choking businesses and preventing them from expanding, thus preventing them from hiring. We need to scale back the regulations that are hurting business. Simple stuff.

While his "fantasy" may be "extreme" it is undoubtedly within the realm of possibility should the EPA be done away with.

With no regulations, anyone can dump anything as long as they do it on their own, private, property.
 
Using an extreme fantasy isn't an argument. The fact is this administration is choking businesses and preventing them from expanding, thus preventing them from hiring. We need to scale back the regulations that are hurting business. Simple stuff.
You're a fucking idiot. that's exactly what were talking about! You were hiding under a rock in 2008 and now you're grasping as straws.

So if you want to accuse the Obama administration of chocking off business with excessive regulations please site me specific exmples of new regulations implemented by this administration and then tell me how they've hurt the economy?
 
While his "fantasy" may be "extreme" it is undoubtedly within the realm of possibility should the EPA be done away with.

With no regulations, anyone can dump anything as long as they do it on their own, private, property.
It's neither extreme or a fantasy. What do you think was being done with hazardous waste prior to EPA?
 
Mohammed fucking a camel. Were you hiding under your momma's skirt during the Clinton administration or fucking your rubber ducky?


MELTDOWNS AND MYTHS

The trouble with the world is not that people know too little, but that they know so many things that aren't true." -- attributed to Mark Twain

Easy answers are seldom correct ones. That principle seems to be at work as the nation struggles to discover the causes of the financial crisis now rocking the economy. Looking for a simple and politically convenient villain, many politicians have blamed deregulation by the Bush Administration.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, for instance, stated last month that "the Bush Administration's eight long years of failed deregulation policies have resulted in our nation's largest bailout ever, leaving the American taxpayers on the hook potentially for billions of dollars."[1] Similarly, presidential candidate Barack Obama asserted in the second presidential debate that "the biggest problem in this whole process was the deregulation of the financial system."[2]

But there is one problem with this answer: Financial services were not deregulated during the Bush Administration. If there ever was an "era of deregulation" in the financial world, it ended long ago. And the changes made then are for the most part non-controversial today.

Basic Regulatory Structures Never in Doubt

In a literal sense, financial services were never "deregulated," nor was there ever a serious attempt to do so. Few analysts have ever proposed the elimination of the regulatory structures in place to ensure the soundness and transparency of banks. Simply put, the job of bank examiner was never threatened.

More typically, of course, the word deregulation has been used as shorthand to describe the repeal or easing of particular rules. To the extent there was a heyday of such deregulation, it was in the 1970s and 1980s. It was at this time that economists -- and consumer activists -- began to question many longstanding restrictions on financial services.

The most important such restrictions were rules banning banks from operating in more than one state. Such rules were largely eliminated by 1994 through state and federal action. Few observers lament their passing today, and because regional and nationwide banks are far better able to balance risk, this "deregulation" has helped mitigate, rather than contribute to, the instability of the system.

Gramm-Leach-Bliley and Beyond

The next major "deregulation" of financial services was the repeal of the Depression-era prohibition on banks engaging in the securities business. The ban was formally ended by the 1999 Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, which followed a series of decisions by regulators easing its impact.

While not without controversy, the net effect of Gramm-Leach-Bliley has likely been to alleviate rather than further the current financial crisis.

In fact, President Bill Clinton -- who signed the reform bill into law -- defended the legislation in a recent interview, saying, "I don't see that signing that bill had anything to do with the current crisis. Indeed, one of the things that has helped stabilize the current situation as much as it has is the purchase of Merrill Lynch by Bank of America, which was much smoother than it would have been if I hadn't signed that bill."[3]

In 2000, Congress also passed legislation that, among other things, clarified that certain kinds of financial instruments were not regulated by the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC). Among these were "credit default swaps," which have played a role in this year's meltdown. Whether this law constituted "deregulation" is not clear, since the pre-legislation status of these instruments was uncertain. Nor is it a given that CFTC regulation of their trading would have avoided the financial crisis. In fact, many policymakers, including Clinton Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin, argued that their regulation would do more harm than good.

In the nine years since that legislation -- including the eight years of the Bush presidency -- Congress has enacted no further legislation easing burdens financial services industry.

Regulatory Agency Trends

But what of the regulatory agencies? Did they pursue a deregulatory agenda during the Bush Administration? Again, the answer seems to be no.

In terms of rulemaking -- the promulgation of specific rules by regulatory agencies -- the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) is by far the most active among agencies in the financial realm. Based on data from the Government Accountability Office, the SEC completed 23 proceedings since the beginning of the Bush Administration that resulted in a substantive and major change (defined as an economic effect of $100 million or more) in regulatory burdens. Of those, only eight -- about a third -- lessened burdens.[4] Perhaps surprisingly, the Bush record in this regard is actually less deregulatory than that of the Clinton Administration, which during its second term lessened burdens in nine out of 20 such rulemaking proceedings.

Other financial agencies have been far less active in making formal rule changes. The Federal Reserve reports five major rulemakings in the database since 1996 -- four of which were deregulatory. The only rule change reported by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation and the Controller of the Currency is the 1997 adoption of new capital reserve standards, an action with mixed consequences.

Of course, much of the work of regulators takes place in day-to-day activities rather than in formal rulemaking activities. For that reason, it is also helpful to look at the budgets of regulators.

These also show little sign of reduced regulatory activity during the Bush years. The total budget of federal finance and banking regulators (excluding the SEC) increased from approximately $2 billion in FY 2000 to almost $2.3 billion in FY 2008 in constant 2000 dollars. The SEC's budget during the same time period jumped from $357 million in 2000 to a whopping $629 million in 2008. During the same time period, total staffing at these agencies remained steady, at close to 16,000.[5]

A False Narrative

In the wake of the financial crisis gripping the nation, it is tempting to blame "deregulation" for triggering the problem. After all, if the meltdown were caused by the ill-advised elimination of necessary rules, the answer would be easy: Restore those rules.

But that storyline is simply not true. Not only was there was little deregulation of financial services during the Bush years, but most of the regulatory reforms achieved in earlier years mitigated, rather than contributed to, the crisis.

This, of course, does not mean that no regulatory changes should be considered. In the wake of the current crisis, debate over the scope and method of regulation in financial markets is inevitable and, in fact, necessary. But this cannot be a debate over returning to a regulatory Nirvana that never existed. Any new regulatory system would be just that -- complete with all the uncertainty and prospects for unintended consequences that define such a system. Policymakers must not pretend otherwise.

James L. Gattuso is Senior Research Fellow in Regulatory Policy in the Thomas A. Roe Institute for Economic Policy Studies at The Heritage Foundation.

http://www.heritage.org/research/re...s-did-deregulation-cause-the-financial-crisis
OK, so let me get this straight, is this your way of saying that deregulation played no part in the 2008 economic melt down?
 
While his "fantasy" may be "extreme" it is undoubtedly within the realm of possibility should the EPA be done away with.

With no regulations, anyone can dump anything as long as they do it on their own, private, property.

I'm not calling for the end of the EPA. Where did I ever say that?
 
I'm not sure if tax cuts directly affect the job market, but I would say at this point that fiscal responsibility in general will definitely affect hiring, especially now. The gov't's efforts to balance the budget in the '90's helped that boom. It inspired more confidence among investors; when venture capitalists are putting their money into start-ups & other business opportunities, people hire.

I think there is a general feeling after the past decade that things are just out of control. The spending bills in the Bush admin started things rolling, then the wars, & so on & so on. There has been very little talk of cutting meaningful spending, or balancing the budget.

The ship isn't going to just right itself on its own at this point. We can't just raise taxes on the rich & hope for the best. Investors have no confidence at this point that gov't has any clue regarding some sort of return to fiscal responsibility.
I agree but would you agree with me that achieving that goal, fiscal responsibility, will require compromise by both parties? That it will require a combination of tax increases and spending cuts?
 
sure it does.

9ny4w.png


Taxation compared to annual per-capita GDP growth in the OECD countries from over a 30 year period.

state-burdens.png


Unemployment compared to tax rate in the states.

Again, if it exists at all, it's difficult to distinguish it from noise.
 
Bush isn't the problem. That's all I'm saying, you stupid little cocksucker.
Who the fuck said he did? I sure as hell didn't. Can't you even stay on topic or do you have ADD? I asked you a simple question, can you please try to answer it? Are you saying that deregulation had nothing to do with the 2008 economic collapse?
 
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