Could A Good God Permit So Much Suffering?

domer76 said:
You give yourself too much credit, Festus
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For some posters it is VERY important that you be angry or upset. Douche is one of those folks whose only joy in life is making others feel bad, so he spends literally all day on here spewing toxicity (he's recently taken to "barfing" on my posts, like hundreds of them in the space of 2 days. He's literally just going through and hitting the response button...like over 300 in the last 2 days. It's fuckin' creepy as fuck. But it does at least let you know that everything he throws at others he's guilty of himself and moreso.

If you are upset he gets to rub one out.

And he's really about the only friend Cy has.
 
Cypress said:
There's no proof of anything.

Organization and mathematical design don't come from random chance, not in my experience. That's the most powerful logical inference the theists have, even if I don't necessarily think it has to be the truth. There are a couple other explanations I think could be possible

The multiverse always struck me as an ad hoc idea intended to sweep fine tuning under the carpet. I don't even think the multiverse was a widely discussed idea until the 1990s, and only after when scientists first began to realize how incredibly finely tuned the universe is.


A temporary and ephemeral blockage on a river from debris deposited by floods is not analogous to the design and lawful order of the universe.

The physical laws, mathematical constants, and fine tuning of the cosmos persist through time. They are predictable and lawful.

None of us on this board have ever seen that kind of persistent, complex, lawful design and organization appear by random chance.
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Not in our universe. Still, like the dam created by a flash flood, shit does happen given enough time and randomness.

Consider survivor's guilt and random actions like the lone survivor of the Air India crash. "Why me? Is it God???" or is it just random chance? It's random chance, not God. Same for Trump surviving the assassination at Butler while two people died and several were wounded. Just chance. Roll a pair of dice and the odds they come up snake eyes or box cars is 1 out of 36 each. Someone betting on the outcome of a single roll needs to do the math. OTOH, the most common roll is 7 since there are six different combinations to make 7; 1 and 6, 2 and 5, 3 and 4, 4 and 3, 5 and 2, 6 and 1. If a person rolls a bunch of 7s in a row, is that divine intervention or simply chance?

We wouldn't be having this discussion if our universe was simply a black hole where the "laws" did not permit life to exist. It's like the crash survivor saying "Why me? Is it God?"
 
gmark77 said:
For some posters it is VERY important that you be angry or upset. Douche is one of those folks whose only joy in life is making others feel bad, so he spends literally all day on here spewing toxicity (he's recently taken to "barfing" on my posts, like hundreds of them in the space of 2 days. He's literally just going through and hitting the response button...like over 300 in the last 2 days. It's fuckin' creepy as fuck. But it does at least let you know that everything he throws at others he's guilty of himself and moreso.

If you are upset he gets to rub one out.

And he's really about the only friend Cy has.
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The best I can give his responses is laughingly irritating.

Bless his heart!
 
domer76 said:
Believing in a higher power is not the same as thinking that entity is the creator of the universe.

There are theories that do not adhere to “a point in time”.

You two VERY amateur psychologists are wrong time and again. I don’t give a flying fuck about either one of you to be angry. You give yourselves too much credit.

Again, you confuse two different issues. Admitting to not knowing how this universe began, as everybody with a brain will agree, is not the same as rejecting a supernatural bpurely inanimate physical reasons?eing who will guarantee your eternal life if only “believe”.

You need that supernatural being. I don’t.
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So you are 100 percent certain that matter, energy, order, design, and the mathematical laws of physics just popped into experience by a purely inanimate physical reason?

You seem to be studiously avoiding answering that question.
 
Cypress said:
So you are 100 percent certain the matter, energy, order, design, and the mathematical laws or physics popped into experience by a purely inanimate physical reason?
You seem to be studiously avoiding answering that question.
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LOL “Popped”?

There you go again, Margaret. Bless your heart!
 
gmark77 said:
For some posters it is VERY important that you be angry or upset. Douche is one of those folks whose only joy in life is making others feel bad, so he spends literally all day on here spewing toxicity (he's recently taken to "barfing" on my posts, like hundreds of them in the space of 2 days. He's literally just going through and hitting the response button...like over 300 in the last 2 days. It's fuckin' creepy as fuck. But it does at least let you know that everything he throws at others he's guilty of himself and moreso.

If you are upset he gets to rub one out.

And he's really about the only friend Cy has.
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Right on cue! :rofl2: :ROFLMAO: :rofl2:

Cry, Perry, cry!

a7w8q1.jpg
 
domer76 said:
LOL “Popped”?

There you go again, Margaret. Bless your heart!
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So you either can't, or won't, say you have 100 percent certainty that matter, energy, design, lawful organization, and the mathematical laws of physics originated simply by some purely inanimate physical cause.


That makes you agnostic, not atheist.
 
Cypress said:
So you either can't, or won't, say you have 100 percent certainty that matter, energy, design, lawful organization, and the mathematical laws of physics originated simply by some purely inanimate physical cause.


That makes you agnostic, not atheist.
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Tell all of us who does say that. I’ll wait.
 
gmark77 said:
Hey Cliffe, why does atheism scare you? Try learning about it. It’s not that scary
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I undoubtedly know more about atheism than you. Because I not only extensively watch the podcasts and debates of prominent modern atheists like Richard Dawkins, Alex O'Connor, Matt Delahunty, Bart Ehrman, Sam Harris, Daniel Dennet, but I have also studied the seminal atheist authors of the 19th and 20th centuries: Jean Paul Satre, Karl Marx, Albert Camus, Frederich Nietzsche.
 
domer76 said:
Tell all of us who does say that. I’ll wait.
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Okay, so you are not 100 percent completely and unequivocally dead certain that the design, lawful order, and mathematical laws of physics of the cosmos originated from a purely inanimate physical cause.

That just proves what I stated all along. When you push atheists to the logical conclusions of their belief system, you end up exposing that they actually have an agnostic core.
Cypress said:
But if you challenge them to take their (atheistic) belief system to it's logical conclusion, they end up in all kinds of illogical pretzel-twisting.

Those deep contradictions are disguising an agnostic core
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Cypress said:
Okay, so you are not 100 percent completely and unequivocally dead certain that the design, lawful order, and mathematical laws of physics of the cosmos originated from a purely inanimate physical cause.

That just proves what I stated all along. When you push atheists to the logical conclusions of their belief system, you end up exposing that they actually have an agnostic core.
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Still waiting. It’s OK to say NOBODY claims that. Really, it is
 
domer76 said:
Tell all of us who does say that. I’ll wait.
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The athiest Steven Hawking.
He famously claimed that the universe could spontaneously pop into existence for purely inanimate physical reasons - A quantum flux.

But there are serious logical problems with that claim. Hawking was a genius in physics, but he doesn't seem to have had any training in formal logic and philosophy.
 
domer76 said:
Still waiting. It’s OK to say NOBODY claims that. Really, it is
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The athiest Steven Hawking.
He famously claimed that the universe could spontaneously pop into existence for purely inanimate physical reasons - A quantum flux.

But there are serious logical problems with that claim. Hawking was a genius in physics, but he doesn't seem to have had any training in formal logic and philosophy.
 
Cypress said:
The athiest Steven Hawking.
He famously claimed that the universe could spontaneously pop into existence for purely inanimate physical reasons - A quantum flux.

But there are serious logical problems with that claim. Hawking was a genius in physics, but he doesn't seem to have had any training in formal logic and philosophy.
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Ah, he said “could” rather than your “100% absolutely”.

Still waiting.
 
domer76 said:
Still waiting. It’s OK to say NOBODY claims that. Really, it is
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Cypress said:
The athiest Steven Hawking.
He famously claimed that the universe could spontaneously pop into existence for purely inanimate physical reasons - A quantum flux.

But there are serious logical problems with that claim. Hawking was a genius in physics, but he doesn't seem to have had any training in formal logic and philosophy.
Click to expand...

^^ I obviously know more about atheism than atheists.
 
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