So in other words you are extremely reticent to admit that strict inanimate physical materialism is a central belief of your atheist worldview, but then OTOH you will not tell me about these other transcendent planes of reality that might exist beyond physical matter and energy -->
Could A Good God Permit So Much Suffering?
- Thread starter Hume
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I wish you'd be honest about why atheism upsets you so much. But I sense we will never know for sure, will we, Cliffe?
You're fleeing and running away from strict inanimate physical materialism. My work here is done.
LOL. You don't understand atheism and you are scared of it. Ya know, Cliffe, you might want to spend some time learning the topic FIRST. Then come back and talk.
Still running for the hills away from strict physical materialism?
The fact you believe you can learn everything there is to know about the atheist worldview from a concise dictionary definition is the clearest demonstration possible that you don't know much about atheism, and have not thought as deeply about it as me, Albert Camus, or Jean Paul Sartre.
I'm not scared of physical materialism. But that isn't the definition of atheism. Atheism is merely the lack of belief in a god concept.
I'm fine as a strict physical materialist. In fact the only way you aren't is if you just make stuff up and imagine it. You only have the material to deal with.
Oh Christ on a cracker, dude, you ain't no Camus or Sartre. Stop masturbating to yourself.
No, there's more to atheism than a concise dictionary definition. An atheist worldview has logical consequences that have to be considered and questioned. One of which is a philosophical belief in strict, inanimate physical materialism.
Then explain precisely how the order, design, mathematical organization, physical laws, and mathematical constants of the universe resulted from purely inanimate naturalistic physical causes.
Any attempt to say you don't know will be taken as an admission you have an agnostic core, and that the logical consequences of an atheist worldview leads to confusion and contradiction.
Wrong.
The ONLY position of atheism is that it lacks a god concept.
You can't even understand the simple words presented. The only reason to lard more stuff on atheism is because you don't like atheism and you need to make a strawman.
And I told you I'm not scared of that. I'll take it. And while physical materialists are atheist, not all atheists are necessarily physical materialists.
I happen to be one of the former, but there is nothing to bar the latter. Just do a quick google search and you'll find the occasional non-materialist atheist. I don't give much credence to the position but I can't deny that it exists.
So you have nothing even close to an explanation for how strictly inanimate physical reasons could logically create a universe with order, design, lawful organization, physical laws, and mathematical constants.
That's exactly the kind of dodge I knew you would take.
Do I have to know everything in the universe to be an atheist? Because that isn't correct.
I don't need to know how anything works. All I need to know is that you and all your believer friends have never provided sufficient evidence that your proposed being outside of time and space actually exists.
All I have is your fantasy musings and your "just so" stories.
I don't know how the TV works but I don't believe there are "ghosts floating inside it" to give me the image.
You, on the other hand, would have to accept that for any given system you don't understand there's at least a 50% chance it could be "magic".
I'm not stuck in your magical world.
So I can see that you tacitly realize and belatedly have become aware how illogical and irrational it is to believe that order, lawful organization, fine tuning, design, physical laws, mathematical constants just resulted from purely inanimate, naturalistic physical reasons.
That goes against all experience and observation we have.
That's why even though I tried, I never could muster enough faith to be an atheist.
Some day maybe you'll read a book about atheism. Maybe someone can help you with the concepts.
I am satisfied now that you have demonstrated an astounding lack of knowledge of this area. As per usual you think more of yourself than is objectively justified.
I'm not asking if you know everything.
I'm asking if it's logical for you to be confident that the order, lawful organization, fine tuning, design, physical laws, mathematical constants of the cosmos just resulted from purely inanimate, naturalistic physical reasons.
Based on the dodging and weaving you are doing, your confidence level is low.
Obviously, it's now suddenly becoming self evident to you that we have no experience or observation of something like that ever happening.
Thank you for allowing me to demonstrate that when you force people with an atheist worldview to live out the logical consequences of their atheism, they expose themselves as actually having agnostic beliefs.
You admitted that your knowledge of what atheism is comes from a concise dictionary definition.
I've spent years investigating, studying, reading the prominent 21st century atheist influencers, and the seminal atheist authors of the 19th and 20th century.
The contrast between you and me couldn't be more stark.
That's why I know that your suggestion is ridiculous that everything you need to know about the atheist worldview is found in a ten word dictionary definition.
Libhater
Verified User
If you don't care what the bible says then why in your hell did you start this OP concerning what GOD does or doesn't do?
Because they're pagans, not atheists.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
Perry Penis-Puller is just pulling your penis. It's his way of proving his love for you.
Phyllis Diller
Was it me?
I know those things.
but all that matters is faith expressing itself through love.
you're an elitist judgemental liar.
you understand the least.
you're a shit person.
this proves your ignorance of the entire point.
it's not a gotcha game.