Tesla Model 3 named winner in KBB’s 5-Year Cost to Own Awards 2022. MAGA wets panties

[Joe Capitalist]

Fues cells are a great alternative to ICE but the alt lefties want to have the government control thier freedom sooo.............

Don't you have a Qanon Indoctrination meeting to go to, LyinBitch?

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Fuel cells are the future. The fuel can be installed into the existing infrastructure at a fraction of what plopping millions of charging stations would cost. You don't need a home charging station. They don't strain the electrical grid.
Fuel cell cars fill up like gasoline vehicles and have similar driving range. They have good performance too. Better yet, they are also far easier to recycle and don't require masses of toxic materials in a battery that battery cars require.

 

[Into the Night]

There are no "non-electric portions" between London and Hong Kong.

Yes there are. There is also no train at all between London and Hong Kong.

The rest of the world has worked hard to electrify their rail lines.

The EU is not the 'rest of the world' or even the world. Arrogance.

It is better to not have to carry your fuel with you, and to have a fuel agnostic system.

It is better to fly then to mess with trains. You carry your fuel with you.

Not to mention that almost no one is using true diesel locomotives.

WRONG. Diesel locomotives are most commonplace.

Even in the USA, which is decades behind the time at electrifying, we use diesel hybrid locomotives.

Nope. No batteries. They are not hybrids.

They are actually propelled by electric engines, but those electric engines get their electricity from a diesel generator.

Making them diesel locomotives.

The fact is that electric engines are just better.

A diesel locomotive is not an electric engine.

 

[Into the Night]

And so it begins.

What begins?

 

[Into the Night]

It's that the rebuttal you're going with? BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

Surrender accepted.

Assumption of victory fallacy.

 

[Into the Night]

My God. You're a moron. Please stop stalking me. You are not rational.

I am not stalking anyone. The irrationality is yours. YOU are the one locked in paradoxes. Inversion fallacy.

 

[Into the Night]

Don't waste my time with your inane posts, ExcessLies. You'll force me to put you back on my IGNORE list.

Argument of the Stick fallacy. Removing yourself from the conversation doesn't prevent him or anyone else from posting.

 

[Into the Night]

Why would I buy a stupid fucking truck? I hire people like you to do my dirty work while I chill with a cold one watching the game on my 60" HiDef. And you had to waste $70k on a silly truck to help you feel like a real man?

Okay, girlie.

Real men built that 60" Hidef AND your beer AND your refrigerator AND your toy car with batteries. Real men delivered them to your home or to your store in trucks. Real men sold them to you...and all you can do is sit and watch a game drinking beer and maybe drive your toy car once in a while.

You're posts are jejune and puerile. You're cruising for my IGNORE list, ExcessLies.

Argument of the Stick fallacy.

 

[Into the Night]

Just think, ExcessLies. One day, your truck will be electric and there's not a fucking thing you can do about it.

I find that very amusing.

No, it won't. His truck will always be a diesel. Nothing changes a diesel truck into an electric car any more than an F250 can change into a Toyota pickup.

 

[Into the Night]

It appears Mr. Wet Panties is having another bad day. Maybe waiting for his vehicle to charge?

That's why he's stuck at home watching a game on a TV that real men built for him, drinking beer that real men made for him, and trying to claim he's a 'real man'. His toy car can't haul anything significant (other than his fat butt) and can't tow.

 

[Into the Night]

Name one EV that doesn't charge on power made with fossil fuels . Oh please don't put me on ignore I'll be so crushed

Every EV ever made. Fossils aren't used as fuel.

 

[Into the Night]

Actually, it's far more likely that hydrogen or ammonia fuel cells will become the norm in the next 20 to 30 years and then battery cars will die off once again.

This was actually claimed would happen some 50 years ago. One of those predictions that came about from the Moon shot program, you see.

It never became popular for several reasons:

* the fuel has to be manufactured. The energy put into manufacture would never be fully realized when used in a car. The process end to end is inefficient and expensive.
* the fuel is sold to consumers as high pressure gas (up to 3000psi), making filling somewhat dangerous. This requires a special design to cross check all connections before allowing fuel flow. Consumers are pretty clueless about high pressure gases.
* the fuel is difficult to handle. Even today, hydrogen cars take a long time to fuel, because the fuel nozzle actually freezes to the car while fueling (as a result of the ideal gas law). You have to wait for it to thaw before you can remove it.
* fuel cells take time to 'spin up', or start working when power is demanded from them. This necessitates carrying batteries with your to ballast the fuel cell. This battery pack is significantly sized, about the size used in a hybrid.
* hydrogen has a low energy density by volume, meaning you have to refuel often (with all of it's attendant problems).
* hydrogen is a very small molecule. Leaks are common. Hydrogen leaks are dangerous.

Ammonia has the same problems plus an additional one:
* Ammonia is a very toxic gas, dangerous even in low concentrations. It was because of the dangers of ammonia that artificial refrigerants were developed, such as R12.

In the meantime, I think I'll likely just buy a used truck I like then have a really good company rebuild it to factory standard. That'll still be tens of thousands cheaper than buying a POS battery car...

That it would. You could save even more by doing some of the work yourself, learning as you go.

 

[Into the Night]

Far more likely? Interesting opinion. Too bad you have no data to back it up.

I have an opinion, too: One day, you'll buy an EV. BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!!!

Nah. I don't like toy cars.

 

[Into the Night]

Actually, your technological illiteracy is showing again.

Toyota and Honda both already have working fuel cells, and even cars using them.

The Honda Clarity, for example runs on a hydrogen fuel cell and you can buy one now.

https://techxplore.com/news/2022-08...fuel cells, including for electr ic vehicles.

Toyota is selling a fuel cell vehicle in Europe and the US too
https://www.toyota-europe.com/world-of-toyota/electrified/fuel-cell/

Just like Honda and Toyota were ahead of the curve on emissions controls on vehicles, they're ahead of the curve on the next thing--FUEL CELLS.

Anhydrous ammonia is the up and coming technology in fuel cells too because it's easier to store and handle than hydrogen. Battery cars are a technological dead end.

It's actually more difficult. Anhydrous ammonia is extremely toxic even in low concentrations. Hydrogen at least doesn't have that problem.
In both cases, the fuel has to be manufactured (synthesized). You can't just get it out of the ground and refine it. Synthesizing fuel requires more energy than you get back by using it in a car.

Fuel cells have been around a LONG time. Despite that, they've never become a popular power source for vehicles. That's for a reason. Sure, some car makers produce them, but you don't see a lot of them driving around...again for a reason.

Despite high fuel prices, gasoline and diesel are still popular fuels. Now that the courts have forced Biden to release permits to drill again, fuel prices are starting to drop.

 

[Into the Night]

There are currently over 10 million EVs on the roads in America. How many of those fuel cell cars? Three? BWWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Keep dreaming, LyinBitch. EVs are here to stay. You will own one soon enough. haw...haw.................haw

Nope. The EVs aren't on the road so much. They are parked while recharging.
Go look at any freeway and see what is driving on them. Not very many electric cars. Maybe 1%.

 

[Into the Night]

Don't you have a Qanon Indoctrination meeting to go to, LyinBitch?

Buzzword fallacies. Insult fallacies. Trolling.

 

[Into the Night]

Fuel cells are the future. The fuel can be installed into the existing infrastructure at a fraction of what plopping millions of charging stations would cost. You don't need a home charging station. They don't strain the electrical grid.
Fuel cell cars fill up like gasoline vehicles and have similar driving range. They have good performance too. Better yet, they are also far easier to recycle and don't require masses of toxic materials in a battery that battery cars require.

Not quite true.

* Fuel cell cars are filled with high pressure gas, not a liquid.
* They take time to 'spin up' the fuel cell when load is demanded. This time is ballasted by a large battery pack so the car has decent acceleration, so the batteries and their masses of raw material to make them is still there.
* Fueling stations look and operate a lot like a gasoline station. However, fueling these cars requires discharging high pressure gas into a tank. This causes a rapid drop in temperature that often freezes the nozzle to the car. You have to wait for it to thaw, slowing the fueling cycle significantly,
* The fuel has to be synthesized. That takes more energy than you get by using the fuel in the car. Synthesis typically requires large amounts of electric power.

Fuel cells have been around for 50 years, first used in spacecraft. They never became popular in cars for a reason.

 

[Walt]

Yes there are. There is also no train at all between London and Hong Kong.

There are gauge changes when entering Belarus, and again when entering China, but other than that there is an electrified rail line from London to Hong Kong. Most of it is the Trans-Siberian railroad. The Russians are not using it to its full potential, but there are definitely containers flowing between Hong Kong and London. You can definitely buy a train ticket between the two locations.

The EU is not the 'rest of the world' or even the world. Arrogance.

The EU, China, Russia, etc. have all electrified their lines. We are being left behind.

A diesel locomotive is not an electric engine.

In most modern diesel locomotives, a diesel generator feeds electricity to an electric engine. The actual engine driving the locomotive is electric. There may well be no one making pure diesel locomotives anymore. It is a dead end technology.

 

[Joe Capitalist]

Nope. The EVs aren't on the road so much. They are parked while recharging.
Go look at any freeway and see what is driving on them. Not very many electric cars. Maybe 1%.

And you know this how?

So are you doubting that there are 10 million EVs in America? Do a Google search?

Yeah, my car is parked while recharging, in my garage while I'm sleeping. So what's your point?

 

[Joe Capitalist]

Okay, girlie.

Real men built that 60" Hidef AND your beer AND your refrigerator AND your toy car with batteries. Real men delivered them to your home or to your store in trucks. Real men sold them to you...and all you can do is sit and watch a game drinking beer and maybe drive your toy car once in a while.

Argument of the Stick fallacy.

So why are you responding to posts addressed to ExcessLies? Can't he speak for himself?

But I will give you credit for putting aside the politics and responding with facts about fuel cell technology. Has anyone disputed your points?