Rep. Abigail Spanberger (VA-D) - Never use the words 'socialist' or 'socialism'

Who will win the Democratic civil war?


  • Total voters
    18
From a personal standpoint, I think hate is a wasted emotion, especially in politics. I'm a practical guy. We have to figure out how Trump held sway over such a large group of people, especially those whose interests were decidedly not served by a Trump Presidency. I don't hate them. In some cases I find them beneath contempt, but that isn't hate. If you think you're going to bait me into defending someone else's hate.... it won't work. ;)

Agreed about hate. Hate is an emotion. It isn't logical and logic is the best way to resolve our nation's problems. The Preamble of the Constitution says it all.

The problem seems to be fucking lawyers twisting the meaning of "promote the general Welfare" among other words. Yeah, a lot of assholes want to limit "the Blessings of Liberty" too, both Left and Right. Where do you stand on this?

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America
 
The Republican Party fought a civil war for almost 20 years. A war between Goldberg/Reagan conservatives and the New Right first led by Gingrich then evolved into Neo-Cons and Teabaggers before finally collapsing into the Party of Trump.

What will happen within the Republican party over the next two years leading to the midterms will prove which direction they've chosen: the path to redemption or the path to complete destruction.
Frankly, the Dems are going to have some soul searching too.
 
Althea: "Hard to tell due to Covid, but what did the last 4 years do for worker drones?"
Jack: Nothing.

Althea: "We had food rotting on the vine because of trump's initial immigration shut down. Did you see worker drones rushing out to pick produce?"
Jack: What was the Pay Scale? Hard for Americans to compete with Third World Labor. (you're making my point for me)

Althea: "'Messaging' is one thing. Results are another thing altogether."
Jack: As we sit here doing a 'post Game analysis', I've given you My Theory. What is Your Theory on 70 million people voting for Trump?
You should know this. 40% of the electorate will vote Republican. This includes every registered Republican. Many who are billionaires who don't want to pay taxes. Many who don't believe in abortion. Many who think Obama took their guns.

The rest are those who never voted before, and were inspired to crawl out from under their rocks to vote for a fellow racist.

Not many of them were worker drones this time.
 
Frankly, the Dems are going to have some soul searching too.

All Americans should do soul searching.

Here's a basic question: "Do you think the motto of the United States of America should remain E Pluribus Unum or changed to Fuck you, I got mine? Every man for themselves?
 
you really are a stupid fuck, aren't you?????? i'm done with your idiocy......you were fun for a short while, but I dare say you're even dumber than domer...........and that's saying alot

Excellent display of RW moronism. Sure, there are many examples of LW moronism but you and I know that's expected. After all, they're LWers. LOL

My interest is why you are such a fucking moron. Please explain yourself sir.
 
You should know this. 40% of the electorate will vote Republican. This includes every registered Republican. Many who are billionaires who don't want to pay taxes. Many who don't believe in abortion. Many who think Obama took their guns.

The rest are those who never voted before, and were inspired to crawl out from under their rocks to vote for a fellow racist.

Not many of them were worker drones this time.


Althea: "You should know this. 40% of the electorate will vote Republican. This includes every registered Republican."
Jack: I agree with that when a John McCain or Mitt Romney are running. I DON'T believe that when it comes to Trump.

Althea: "Many who are billionaires who don't want to pay taxes. Many who don't believe in abortion. Many who think Obama took their guns."
Jack: Agree. Billionaires, Evangelicals, Gun Owners, and White Supremacists would cast their vote for Trump. (I don't think that is 70 million people though)

Althea: "The rest are those who never voted before, and were inspired to crawl out from under their rocks to vote for a fellow racist."
Jack: So you are saying, besides the above groups, the rest of the 70 million people were Racists? That's interesting.

Althea: "Not many of them were worker drones this time."
Jack: I can see the 'Investing Class' (those voting their pocket books) voting for Trump.

Thanks for your assessment of the 70 million that voted for Trump. I'm still scratching my head on this. Trump acts like a Fascist/Mafia Crime Boss and lies constantly. I'm still in shock over how many people voted for this guy.
 
Althea: "You should know this. 40% of the electorate will vote Republican. This includes every registered Republican."
Jack: I agree with that when a John McCain or Mitt Romney are running. I DON'T believe that when it comes to Trump.

Althea: "Many who are billionaires who don't want to pay taxes. Many who don't believe in abortion. Many who think Obama took their guns."
Jack: Agree. Billionaires, Evangelicals, Gun Owners, and White Supremacists would cast their vote for Trump. (I don't think that is 70 million people though)

Althea: "The rest are those who never voted before, and were inspired to crawl out from under their rocks to vote for a fellow racist."
Jack: So you are saying, besides the above groups, the rest of the 70 million people were Racists? That's interesting.

Althea: "Not many of them were worker drones this time."
Jack: I can see the 'Investing Class' (those voting their pocket books) voting for Trump.

Thanks for your assessment of the 70 million that voted for Trump. I'm still scratching my head on this. Trump acts like a Fascist/Mafia Crime Boss and lies constantly. I'm still in shock over how many people voted for this guy.

Here's a good article that is worth taking the time to read...


Nevertheless, IMO...we have lots of dumbed-down and gullible people in the USA...obviously.
 
The Republican party waged a civil war on itself, the battle for the soul of the GOP beginning in the mid-90s. The result was the Party of Trump.

Now the Democratic party is in the beginning stages of a civil war of its own. Like inside the GOP, it's a battle between moderates and extremists. The extremists won in the Republican civil war. Who will win the Democratic civil war?

During a three hour Democratic caucus call Rep. Spanberger said “We need to not ever use the word ‘socialist’ or ‘socialism’ ever again. . . . We lost good members because of that.....If we are classifying Tuesday as a success . . . we will get fucking torn apart in 2022.

I agree with Spanberger.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...dae5ca-1f6e-11eb-90dd-abd0f7086a91_story.html
An angry dispute erupted among House Democrats on Thursday, with centrist members blasting their liberal colleagues during a private conference call for pushing far-left views that cost the party seats in Tuesday’s election that they had worked hard to win two years ago.

Follow the latest on Election 2020
The bitter exchange, which lasted more than three hours as members sniped back and forth over tactics and ideology, reflected the extent to which the 2020 campaign exposed simmering tensions in the party even as its presidential nominee, Joe Biden, stands on the brink of achieving their biggest goal of the year — ousting President Trump.

Party leaders had expressed certainty that Trump’s divisiveness and mishandling of the pandemic would help them expand their majority with wins in GOP-held districts — and yet they lost at least a half-dozen seats and failed to retake the Senate. The explanation laid out by centrists, according to multiple people who were on the call and spoke on the condition of anonymity, is that Republicans were easily able to paint them all as socialists and radical leftists who endorse far-left positions such as defunding the police.
...

Ridiculous.

Every House Member who campaigned on Medicare for All retained their seats .. and progressive politics won even without democrats. 15$ minimum wage won starts for republicans in Florida and legalization won again.

It was and remains progressive politics winning in Georgia with progressive leadership, without which the black and Latino votes would not have been as energized as they were. Once again it’s centrist democrats taking their cues from republicans.

Keep promoting attacks on progressives and see how far that gets you.
 
Here's a good article that is worth taking the time to read...



Nevertheless, IMO...we have lots of dumbed-down and gullible people in the USA...obviously.



from your link:
"Deciphering what happened in this election will surely involve a grueling postmortem within the Democratic Party. Trump’s enduring popularity clearly has much to do with factors beyond the pandemic. Much of what he said and did as president was thinly veiled white supremacy, misogyny, race-baiting, and class warfare."

'Class Warfare'. Since 50% of Americans are 'investors' in the Stock Market, I can see them voting their pocket book with little regard for anything elsa.

"The narratives and tactics Trump used to persuade people to trust him as a sole beacon of truth—amid a sea of corrupt, lying scientists and doctors—draw on those of cult leaders, self-proclaimed healers, and wellness charlatans as much as those of authoritarian demagogues. They have proved effective over centuries."

'Snake Oil Salesman'. Yes. You have to give Trump that. He is a good Con Man.

"Like any competent quack, Trump focuses on a winning vibe, not a factual case. He positions himself as an alternative to “the scientists” and “the doctors” such that followers have to choose between trusting them or him. This process, in extreme forms, leads to what some psychologists refer to as identity fusion. William Swann, a professor at the University of Texas at Austin, coined the term in 2009 while studying theories of individual identity. Once fused with a group or leader, he noticed, followers seem tied to them in such a way that things are true because the leader said them. Dystopian as that may seem, it can be a coping mechanism: Orienting your sense of truth around a person can be more comforting than doing so around a nebulous, uncertain, or otherwise threatening reality. Fusion is not appealing because it makes sense; it is appealing because it alleviates the cognitive and emotional burden of thinking.

:) --->'it alleviates the cognitive and emotional burden of thinking'.

'Identity Fusion'. This is an interesting Theory. Thanks for posting the article, Cinnabar.
 
The Republican party waged a civil war on itself, the battle for the soul of the GOP beginning in the mid-90s. The result was the Party of Trump.

Now the Democratic party is in the beginning stages of a civil war of its own. Like inside the GOP, it's a battle between moderates and extremists. The extremists won in the Republican civil war. Who will win the Democratic civil war?

During a three hour Democratic caucus call Rep. Spanberger said “We need to not ever use the word ‘socialist’ or ‘socialism’ ever again. . . . We lost good members because of that.....If we are classifying Tuesday as a success . . . we will get fucking torn apart in 2022.

I agree with Spanberger.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...dae5ca-1f6e-11eb-90dd-abd0f7086a91_story.html
An angry dispute erupted among House Democrats on Thursday, with centrist members blasting their liberal colleagues during a private conference call for pushing far-left views that cost the party seats in Tuesday’s election that they had worked hard to win two years ago.

Follow the latest on Election 2020
The bitter exchange, which lasted more than three hours as members sniped back and forth over tactics and ideology, reflected the extent to which the 2020 campaign exposed simmering tensions in the party even as its presidential nominee, Joe Biden, stands on the brink of achieving their biggest goal of the year — ousting President Trump.

Party leaders had expressed certainty that Trump’s divisiveness and mishandling of the pandemic would help them expand their majority with wins in GOP-held districts — and yet they lost at least a half-dozen seats and failed to retake the Senate. The explanation laid out by centrists, according to multiple people who were on the call and spoke on the condition of anonymity, is that Republicans were easily able to paint them all as socialists and radical leftists who endorse far-left positions such as defunding the police.
...


it is the nature for big tent parties to wage internal civil war, nothing new here.
 
Here's a good article that is worth taking the time to read...



Nevertheless, IMO...we have lots of dumbed-down and gullible people in the USA...obviously.


A 'Charismatic Leader'. Obama was a charismatic person. I remember one black guy being interviewed and he said 'I voted for Obama because he was Black' and didn't know what his Policies were. So the "I just like the guy" attraction has to be part of the equation. I can see Trump being a 'Charismatic Leader' to some. Biden ... I can't see anyone calling Biden 'charismatic'.
 
The Republican party waged a civil war on itself, the battle for the soul of the GOP beginning in the mid-90s. The result was the Party of Trump.

Now the Democratic party is in the beginning stages of a civil war of its own. Like inside the GOP, it's a battle between moderates and extremists. The extremists won in the Republican civil war. Who will win the Democratic civil war?

During a three hour Democratic caucus call Rep. Spanberger said “We need to not ever use the word ‘socialist’ or ‘socialism’ ever again. . . . We lost good members because of that.....If we are classifying Tuesday as a success . . . we will get fucking torn apart in 2022.

I agree with Spanberger.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...dae5ca-1f6e-11eb-90dd-abd0f7086a91_story.html
An angry dispute erupted among House Democrats on Thursday, with centrist members blasting their liberal colleagues during a private conference call for pushing far-left views that cost the party seats in Tuesday’s election that they had worked hard to win two years ago.

Follow the latest on Election 2020
The bitter exchange, which lasted more than three hours as members sniped back and forth over tactics and ideology, reflected the extent to which the 2020 campaign exposed simmering tensions in the party even as its presidential nominee, Joe Biden, stands on the brink of achieving their biggest goal of the year — ousting President Trump.

Party leaders had expressed certainty that Trump’s divisiveness and mishandling of the pandemic would help them expand their majority with wins in GOP-held districts — and yet they lost at least a half-dozen seats and failed to retake the Senate. The explanation laid out by centrists, according to multiple people who were on the call and spoke on the condition of anonymity, is that Republicans were easily able to paint them all as socialists and radical leftists who endorse far-left positions such as defunding the police.
...

Strategically she is right. There are far more votes in the center than in either extremes. The progressive left is the smallest faction of either major parties coalitions and the polling data clearly shows they are the least popular. That doesn’t mean that they are always wrong or that we don’t need a truly liberal wing in American politics but that doesn’t change the fact that America is essentially a centrist nation (center left, center and center right).

The evidence is clear that what should have been a blue wave was undermined by the progressive liberal wing of the party. Most Americans find the European style Social Democrat policies unpalatable. Notions such as defunding the police, which was interpreted as eliminating polic, or universal guaranteed income which violates traditional Protestant work ethic are not ideas that the majority of Americans accept.

So co-opting the middle, as the GOP, continues on its path further to the right is a great opportunity but make no mistake about it. If there’s no center and Americans have to choose between the far left and the far right the majority will choose the far right. This Presidential election may have been a rejection by the majority of Trumps boorish behavior, inconsistent policies and gross incompetence in his management of the COVID pandemic but the vast support he did receive was solid evidence of Americans rejection of progressive left policies.

But here’s the real question, even if Democrats are able to co-opt the political center what will they do to address the complete failure of supply side economic policies with something other than socialism and what will they do to reverse the impact our past trade policies which have done so much damage to rural and small town communities by dissolving their economic base in manufacturing?

These two issues are the major drivers of the rural/urban divide which is the true political divide in our nation. So what will Democrats do to support and invest in our rural and small town communities? How will they provide an economic pathway for them? How will they reach out to them with infrastructure, IT and communication resources, transportation and logistics networks that currently by pass them.

Currently I see no efforts by Democrats to reach out to rural and small town Americans to bridge this divide. When I discuss this with my urban liberal friends their responses are either arrogant and dismissive of them or down right pejorative towards them as being ignorant, poorly educated Bubbas who are to stupid to know where their best interest lies.

If the Democrats sincerely wish to co-opt the middle and cure the rural/urban divide then this shit needs to stop and Democrats need to come up with rural, small community development programs that respects their values and promotes their economic opportunities and not social Democratic hand outs as these folks intend on earning their bread. These dim witted ideas from condescending and arrogant urban elites just alienates them further.

So that opportunity is there, right now and Democrats can strategically take advantage of it through a little self reflection and prioritizing rural/small town issues instead of being dismissive about them.

So the Democrats need to come up with real solutions that advance rural/small town economic interests and community values that Donald Trump campaigned on so effectively but did so little for. Cause if they don’t, sure as the sun comes up, they will throw there selves behind another demagogue like Trump only the next demagogue may be far worse than Trump.
 
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Althea: "You should know this. 40% of the electorate will vote Republican. This includes every registered Republican."
Jack: I agree with that when a John McCain or Mitt Romney are running. I DON'T believe that when it comes to Trump.

Althea: "Many who are billionaires who don't want to pay taxes. Many who don't believe in abortion. Many who think Obama took their guns."
Jack: Agree. Billionaires, Evangelicals, Gun Owners, and White Supremacists would cast their vote for Trump. (I don't think that is 70 million people though)

Althea: "The rest are those who never voted before, and were inspired to crawl out from under their rocks to vote for a fellow racist."
Jack: So you are saying, besides the above groups, the rest of the 70 million people were Racists? That's interesting.

Althea: "Not many of them were worker drones this time."
Jack: I can see the 'Investing Class' (those voting their pocket books) voting for Trump.

Thanks for your assessment of the 70 million that voted for Trump. I'm still scratching my head on this. Trump acts like a Fascist/Mafia Crime Boss and lies constantly. I'm still in shock over how many people voted for this guy.
It's important to remember that when 130,000,000 some odd voted in '16, that only represented about 50% of eligible voters. It's not hard to believe that the numbers increased so drastically in the most important election in our recent history. Both sides literally dragged voters out to the polls.

How many kids do you think turned 18 in the last 4 years? They were motivated to vote against trump. Didn't trump get about 62,000,000 votes in '16? He only increased by 8 million.
 
It's important to remember that when 130,000,000 some odd voted in '16, that only represented about 50% of eligible voters. It's not hard to believe that the numbers increased so drastically in the most important election in our recent history. Both sides literally dragged voters out to the polls.

How many kids do you think turned 18 in the last 4 years? They were motivated to vote against trump. Didn't trump get about 62,000,000 votes in '16? He only increased by 8 million.


I'm not surprised Trump lost. What surprised me was how close it was.
'Cinnabar' posted (above) an interesting theory of 'Identity Fusion', where you 'fuse' yourself to a Leader (charismatic) that you identify with. After that, you just 'buy into' what ever the person promotes.
I equate this to John F. Kennedy, Ronald Reagan, and Barack Obama. Leaders you want to 'identify' with or 'just like'. I think Trump has this similar appeal to his base of Voters. So, ... that could account for a large segment of the Trump vote.

Also, 'Cinnabar' posted about 'Class Warfare'. The 'Haves' and the 'Have-Nots'. This makes sense. Most people 'vote' their pocketbook.
We're in a world wide Pandemic, the Economy is slowing, ... but the Stock Market keeps going UP! The 'Shareholding Class' is doing fine. Not so much for the 'hand-to-mouth' Working Class.

Soooo, ... I'm coming around to YOUR viewpoint "Not many of them were worker drones this time". :thinking:
 
much is going to depend on the recovery, Trump set Biden up nicely with a V shaped recovery and a vaccine
on the way,
But Biden has to deal with the radical left and their insane energy and tax wants

If Biden can hold the center -he should be OK, but I dont think he can withstand AOC
 
You didn't answer my question, Dutch Uncle. Am I an extremist?? If so, which of my beliefs makes me one??

Your words seem to indicate so, but I can't tell by a single post. How do you feel about abortion? Guns? Gay marriage? Religion in government? Foreign relations? Election 2020?
 
much is going to depend on the recovery, Trump set Biden up nicely with a V shaped recovery and a vaccine
on the way,
But Biden has to deal with the radical left and their insane energy and tax wants

If Biden can hold the center -he should be OK, but I dont think he can withstand AOC

Sorry, comrade, but the economy and the COVID response are the President's job. Trump certainly botched the COVID response which resulted in the economy crashing (the bottom of the V). Fucking up then fixing it and declaring yourself the Best President Evah! is stupid.
 
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