If the Senate allows a fair trial...

Frank Apisa said:
Trump could say "I was not impeached" whether the articles are sent to the Senate or not.
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Irrelevant. He has no been impeached yet.
Frank Apisa said:
Trump is a serial liar.
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Irrelevant.
Frank Apisa said:
He was right about one thing, though, when he said, "The suckers who back me are so fucking stupid, they would continue kissing my ass even if I shot one of them dead on Fifth Avenue in front of television cameras"...
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Never said any such thing. Irrelevant.
 
christiefan915 said:
trump is still impeached no matter how you try to spin it. Now we are waiting for the 2nd step, which is the Senate finalizing trial procedures. Why are they holding up this step?

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Democrats won't name impeachment managers or transmit the articles of impeachment to the Senate until the upper chamber finalizes the procedures for the trial.
"When we see the process that's set forth in the Senate, then we'll know the number of managers we'll have to move forward, and who we would choose," the California Democrat said."

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Not until the articles of impeachment and managers have gone to Senate. No matter how much YOU try to spin it.
 
Nordberg said:
Trump was impeached once the vote was recorded and announced.
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Nope. The Senate has yet to receive the articles of impeachment. Until they do, Trump is not impeached.
Nordberg said:
He is impeached.
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Nope.
Nordberg said:
He has not been tried yet.
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True.
Nordberg said:
The House found evidence of obstruction and abuse of power.
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Define 'obstruction of justice' when there is no justice.
Define 'abuse of power'.
NO CRIME LISTED, dumbass.
Nordberg said:
The House impeaches and they did.
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Nope. The articles of impeachment has not yet been delivered to the Senate.
Nordberg said:
Now the Senate has to hold a trial.
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No, they don't. They could simply dismiss the articles outright if they choose.
 
Sailor said:
Not until the articles of impeachment and managers have gone to Senate. No matter how much YOU try to spin it.
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I know you guys are desperate to argue that trump hasn't really been impeached but this is ridiculous. To impeach means to charge. trump was charged on two counts, therefore he has been impeached.
 
Frank Apisa said:
Why would that be?

Trump obviously attempted to extort President Zelensky...and that rises to the level of an impeachable offense. Plus...he DID attempt to thwart the Houses investigation of him.
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No extortion. Nothing was withheld. Making demands of a foreign government before they receive something from the United States isn't in and of itself a crime.
 
christiefan915 said:
"Harvard Law Professor Laurence Tribe wrote on Twitter that he disagreed with Feldman's analysis, saying that "under Art. I, Sec. 2, Clause 5, he was impeached on Dec 18, 2019. He will forever remain impeached. Period." That portion of the Constitution says that the House of Representatives "shall have the sole Power of Impeachment."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/is-don...icles-of-impeachment-not-delivered-to-senate/
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Nope. The Senate has not yet received the articles of impeachment.
 
christiefan915 said:
I know you guys are desperate to argue that trump hasn't really been impeached but this is ridiculous. To impeach means to charge. trump was charged on two counts, therefore he has been impeached.
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There are procedures for impeachment. Surprisingly ones Democrats cannot make up as they go. This happens to be one of them. There is no impeachment without articles of impeachment and managers being sent to Senate. There is no way around this.
 
christiefan915 said:
"The United States Constitution provides that the House of Representatives "shall have the sole Power of Impeachment" (Article I, section 2) and that "the Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments…[but] no person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two-thirds of the Members present" (Article I, section 3). The president, vice president, and all civil officers of the United States are subject to impeachment."

Read the bolded until it sinks in. The Constitution does not say that the House and Senate have the power of impeachment. The House impeaches, the Senate tries.
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I never said anything different. You must be thinking of someone else.
 
christiefan915 said:
Even the Senate website doesn't say what these people are trying to claim. Not a word about "no impeachment until articles are delivered to them."
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Irrelevant. Trump is not impeached until the Senate receives the articles of impeachment from the House.
christiefan915 said:
This is a pretty desperate denial of the facts by trump supporters.
...deleted irrelevant material...
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Buzzword fallacy. Learn what 'fact' means. Trump is a proper noun. It is capitalized.
 
christiefan915 said:
I know you guys are desperate to argue that trump hasn't really been impeached but this is ridiculous. To impeach means to charge. trump was charged on two counts, therefore he has been impeached.
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Charges haven't been filed. The articles of impeachment have not yet reached the Senate. He is not impeached until they do.
 
Into the Night said:
Nope. The articles of impeachment never arrived at the Senate.
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Doesn't matter. Impeachment means being charged. trump was charged on two counts, therefore he has been impeached.

You are trying to claim that the definition of impeachment is "charged with delivery to Senate." That is simply spin.
 
Into the Night said:
Irrelevant. Trump is not impeached until the Senate receives the articles of impeachment from the House.

Buzzword fallacy. Learn what 'fact' means. Trump is a proper noun. It is capitalized.
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Feel free to capitalize "trump" in all your posts. I choose not to.

You may think your explanation of impeachment is correct but I choose to believe the Senate over you.
 
Hello Celticguy,

Celticguy said:
If the house had done that we wouldnt be talking about it.
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I have to laugh when I hear Republicans talk about 'what the people want.'

The popular vote did not elect Trump.

The popular vote did elect the House that just impeached Trump*. [IMPOTUS]
 
Hello Darth,

Darth Omar said:
No, Trump was deprived of the right to have the courts adjudicate the Executive vs legislative issue with subpoenas lol.
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So IMPOTUS can drag it out past the 2020 election he's trying to rig? Pelosi is genius. What's Trump got? Hate rallies? Lotta good that's doing him. 34% say they will vote for Trump no matter who the Democratic candidate is. 48% say they will vote against Trump no matter who the Democratic candidate is. Pelosi is in the driver's seat.

Darth Omar said:
That the obstruction article is an absolute loser is one of the reasons Pelosi chickened out. You also speak of ‘extortion’ as though it were established fact—when it is absolutely not a fact that Trump extorted Zelensky.

Zelensky is the alleged victim and he denies it.
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So you've got your quote you can hang on. Zelenski was forced to say that. If he angered Trump, his country loses US support as they fight Russia. He can't risk that. He was forced to say that.

Darth Omar said:
And this exercise in absurdity was foisted upon the country by a party who insisted ‘they must move fast’ became the president is a clear and present danger to the next election and democracy. And what do they do? They slam the brakes on the very process they just got done insisting needed to be done quickly.
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What good is it to send it over to the Senate if there is not going to be a fair trial? I approve of her move. Keeps all the balls in the air during the entire holiday break. Masterful politics by Pelosi.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Celticguy,



I have to laugh when I hear Republicans talk about 'what the people want.'

The popular vote did not elect Trump.

The popular vote did elect the House that just impeached Trump*. [IMPOTUS]
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Yes, they did. Its sad that your team refuses to acknowledge this.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Darth,



So IMPOTUS can drag it out past the 2020 election he's trying to rig? Pelosi is genius. What's Trump got? Hate rallies? Lotta good that's doing him. 34% say they will vote for Trump no matter who the Democratic candidate is. 48% say they will vote against Trump no matter who the Democratic candidate is. Pelosi is in the driver's seat.



So you've got your quote you can hang on. Zelenski was forced to say that. If he angered Trump, his country loses US support as they fight Russia. He can't risk that. He was forced to say that.



What good is it to send it over to the Senate if there is not going to be a fair trial? I approve of her move. Keeps all the balls in the air during the entire holiday break. Masterful politics by Pelosi.
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First off, how is Trump ‘rigging anything’ lol?

He didn’t rig anything with Putin and he didn’t rig anything in Ukraine. And even if he was a rigger what was the point of kinda sorta impeaching him? It’s not going to stop what ever rigging you think he might do in the future.

Makes no absolutely no sense.

And you can’t just wave off Zelensky like his words don’t matter. He said he felt no pressure from Trump. Apparently, he felt compelled to say it *again* because some people weren’t getting the point. This is one of the things that will change in a Senate trial if/when Nancy decides to fulfill the impeachment process as defined *in the constitution*. Republicans are going to use Zelensky’s testimony as exculpatory evidence and I can’t imagine Chief Justice Roberts being the first judge in US history to disallow the alleged victim’s testimony in a trial.

If this trial occurs it’s not going to be anything like Schiff’s Star Chamber. Maybe that’s why Nancy is dragging her feet.
 
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