Where's the moral outrage?

[Damocles]

(1) Expanding the legal justification for a practice is not an expansion of the underlying practice.

(2) He never promised to end renditions.

(3) Where's the source for the claim that Obama somehow expanded rendition?

1. Right, claiming even more specific immunity and using it doesn't expand anything.

2. He did promise to end rendition.

I'll quote from this document:
http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/CounterterrorismFactSheet.pdf

"From both a moral standpoint and a practical standpoint, torture is wrong. Barack Obama will end the use torture without exception. He also will eliminate the practice of extreme rendition, where we outsource our torture to other countries."

3. Again, I linked to the story where it is continued with a "promised" oversight and have documented the fact that the US agencies no longer do the questioning (they are brought to nations other than ours for that), while that isn't photographs is clearly points to the facts of what I have stated.

BTW - There is a difference between rendition itself which brings the terrorist suspects to trial, and extraordinary rendition which does not. Now, if the people who were taken by this administration had been brought to trial either here or elsewhere, like under Clinton (elsewhere), or previously under Reagan (brought to trial here), it would have been an end to extraordinary rendition. It hasn't happened.


And now that I've answered all your silly questions (about the billionth time on this particular subject) that we've gone over time and again on this site; will you stop being such an Obama-licking hacktard and admit that he has expanded and/or continued every single one of the worst things that the liberals complained about pre Obama?

 

[Bonestorm]

1. Right, claiming even more specific immunity and using it doesn't expand anything.

It expands the justification, not the action being justified. You claimed that the Obama expanded the underlying actions. You're wrong.

2. He did promise to end rendition.

I'll quote from this document:
http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/CounterterrorismFactSheet.pdf

"From both a moral standpoint and a practical standpoint, torture is wrong. Barack Obama will end the use torture without exception. He also will eliminate the practice of extreme rendition, where we outsource our torture to other countries."

That's a promise to end torture and the outsourcing of torture, not rendition.

3. Again, I linked to the story where it is continued with a "promised" oversight and have documented the fact that the US agencies no longer do the questioning (they are brought to nations other than ours for that), while that isn't photographs is clearly points to the facts of what I have stated.

US agencies didn't do the questioning under Bush, either. And the promised oversight is that no one will be tortured, which is the practice that Obama promised to end.

BTW - There is a difference between rendition itself which brings the terrorist suspects to trial, and extraordinary rendition which does not. Now, if the people who were taken by this administration had been brought to trial either here or elsewhere, like under Clinton (elsewhere), or previously under Reagan (brought to trial here), it would have been an end to extraordinary rendition. It hasn't happened.

BTW - I don't give a fuck.

And now that I've answered all your silly questions (about the billionth time on this particular subject) that we've gone over time and again on this site; will you stop being such an Obama-licking hacktard and admit that he has expanded and/or continued every single one of the worst things that the liberals complained about pre Obama?

Right, you continue to repeat the same nonsense over and over and over again regardless of the truth of the matter because you want Obama to be worse than Bush. Well, he isn't. Get over it.

And, for the record, I think Obama's record is pretty much shit on these scores, but he's leaps and bounds better than Bush. Why you have to lie about stuff when the truth is bad enough is weird.

 

[Canceled2]

(1) Expanding the legal justification for a practice is not an expansion of the underlying practice.

(2) He never promised to end renditions.

(3) Where's the source for the claim that Obama somehow expanded rendition?

Obama on Terrorism

Terrorism

Hundreds of al Qaeda have been captured last year. (Jan 2010)
Strategic issue is where to send & how to fund our troops. (Sep 2008)
Disrupting Al Qaeda in Afghanistan prevented another 9/11. (Sep 2008)
Islam in 1970s was not opposed to West & rule of law. (Jul 2008)
Go after al Qaeda but also shrink pool of potential recruits. (Jul 2008)
Al Qaida is stronger now than in 2001 as Iraq distracted us. (Jan 2008)
No torture; no renditions; no operating out of fear. (Apr 2008)
No presidential power for secret surveillance. (Dec 2007)
No holding US citizens as unlawful enemy combatants. (Dec 2007)
Congress decides what constitutes torture, not president. (Dec 2007)
No torture; defiance of FISA; no military commissions. (Dec 2007)
Restore habeas corpus to reach Muslims abroad. (Dec 2007)
Don’t allow our politics to be driven by fear of terrorism. (Nov 2007)
If attacked, first help victims then prevent further attacks. (Oct 2007)
America cannot sanction torture; no loopholes or exceptions. (Sep 2007)
We are no safer now than we were after 9/11. (Aug 2007)
Close Guantanamo and restore the right of habeas corpus. (Jun 2007)
Homeland security must protect citizens, not intrude on them. (Mar 2007)
Personal privacy must be protected even in terrorism age. (Mar 2007)
Battling terrorism must go beyond belligerence vs. isolation. (Oct 2006)
Going after Al Qaeda in Pakistan is not Bush-style invasion. (Jan 2006)
Balance domestic intelligence reform with civil liberty risk. (Jul 2004)
Veterans

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

seriously dixie....there are no laws and rules of war....

The rules and laws of war are quite different than civilian laws. They are certainly not interchangeable like barbie doll parts! We don't apply civilian laws to enemies of the state, and never have. That's what Liberals want to do!

 

[USFREEDOM911]

1. Right, claiming even more specific immunity and using it doesn't expand anything.

2. He did promise to end rendition.

I'll quote from this document:
http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/CounterterrorismFactSheet.pdf

"From both a moral standpoint and a practical standpoint, torture is wrong. Barack Obama will end the use torture without exception. He also will eliminate the practice of extreme rendition, where we outsource our torture to other countries."

3. Again, I linked to the story where it is continued with a "promised" oversight and have documented the fact that the US agencies no longer do the questioning (they are brought to nations other than ours for that), while that isn't photographs is clearly points to the facts of what I have stated.

BTW - There is a difference between rendition itself which brings the terrorist suspects to trial, and extraordinary rendition which does not. Now, if the people who were taken by this administration had been brought to trial either here or elsewhere, like under Clinton (elsewhere), or previously under Reagan (brought to trial here), it would have been an end to extraordinary rendition. It hasn't happened.


And now that I've answered all your silly questions (about the billionth time on this particular subject) that we've gone over time and again on this site; will you stop being such an Obama-licking hacktard and admit that he has expanded and/or continued every single one of the worst things that the liberals complained about pre Obama?

It expands the justification, not the action being justified. You claimed that the Obama expanded the underlying actions. You're wrong.

That's a promise to end torture and the outsourcing of torture, not rendition.

US agencies didn't do the questioning under Bush, either. And the promised oversight is that no one will be tortured, which is the practice that Obama promised to end.

BTW - I don't give a fuck.

Right, you continue to repeat the same nonsense over and over and over again regardless of the truth of the matter because you want Obama to be worse than Bush. Well, he isn't. Get over it.

And, for the record, I think Obama's record is pretty much shit on these scores, but he's leaps and bounds better than Bush. Why you have to lie about stuff when the truth is bad enough is weird.

C'mon Nigel, admit it.
Obama could shoot a child in a wheelchair, on the White House steps, and you'ld defend it.
It's apparent that the only reason you refuse to acknowledge what Damo has brought forth, is because it's YOUR GUY who's in office and you want to keep it like that.

 

[Bonestorm]

C'mon Nigel, admit it.
Obama could shoot a child in a wheelchair, on the White House steps, and you'ld defend it.
It's apparent that the only reason you refuse to acknowledge what Damo has brought forth, is because it's YOUR GUY who's in office and you want to keep it like that.

But, I'm not defending Obama. His record is unconscionable on this and a number of other issues. I'm defending reality.

I mean, if you want to drum up some moral outrage at least have it based in reality, like Obama's assassination order for an American citizen. That's some fucked up shit right there.

 

[Damocles]

It expands the justification, not the action being justified. You claimed that the Obama expanded the underlying actions. You're wrong.

Rubbish. I am right. He justified it through his own filings.

That's a promise to end torture and the outsourcing of torture, not rendition.

Right. That's why he called it rendition.

US agencies didn't do the questioning under Bush, either. And the promised oversight is that no one will be tortured, which is the practice that Obama promised to end.

No, he promised to end extraordinary rendition, directly and using those words. I even bolded the portion for you so you can see it, and linked directly to one of his own campaign documents where he promised to end exactly what I said he promised to end. I even explained to you the difference between extraordinary rendition (also called extreme rendition) but you "don't care". Couldn't even bother to read what was directly before you... I'm thrilled.

BTW - I don't give a fuck.

Right, I figured you wouldn't.

Right, you continue to repeat the same nonsense over and over and over again regardless of the truth of the matter because you want Obama to be worse than Bush. Well, he isn't. Get over it.

And, for the record, I think Obama's record is pretty much shit on these scores, but he's leaps and bounds better than Bush. Why you have to lie about stuff when the truth is bad enough is weird.

Except I don't. Each time I give different sources, in this case Obama's words themselves, to inform you of the truth. You ignore it because you think when he says it is "better than Bush" it's true. It takes deliberate self-delusion to believe as you do on these scores specifically. If you can't just look objectively at reality on this score, then asking you to actually pay attention to the rest of his horrible policy is impossible. You are exactly what you most hated to see among Bush supporters during his 8 years, somebody willing to justify anything and everything he does because you voted for him.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

But, I'm not defending Obama. His record is unconscionable on this and a number of other issues. I'm defending reality.

I mean, if you want to drum up some moral outrage at least have it based in reality, like Obama's assassination order for an American citizen. That's some fucked up shit right there.

Then why do you refuse to acknowledge every single point that Damo presents and continue to chant "Bush's fault - Bush's fault - Bush's fault"?

 

[Phantasmal]

Then why do you refuse to acknowledge every single point that Damo presents and continue to chant "Bush's fault - Bush's fault - Bush's fault"?

Well, that is one fact you can't overlook

 

[USFREEDOM911]

Well, that is one fact you can't overlook

Since that wasn't what the discussion was about, this kind of puts you into the "Obama can do no wrong" crowd.

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

But, I'm not defending Obama. His record is unconscionable on this and a number of other issues. I'm defending reality.

I mean, if you want to drum up some moral outrage at least have it based in reality, like Obama's assassination order for an American citizen. That's some fucked up shit right there.

you're a hack obama lover apologist

yours truly,

dunceler

 

[Norman Paperman]

For years many liberals who post here ranted and raved about:

Rendition-

Gitmo-

Drones-

Patriot Act-

Under Obama the practice of rendition has not stopped; Gitmo remains open; drones have increased; and Obama has expanded the reach of government under the PA.

The answer is simple and twofold...

One, after taking office, Obama was made aware of things he had no clue about and was forced to continue the policies of his predecessor despite his campaign rhetoric.

Two, when have you ever heard of one President giving up power attained for the office by another President?

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

(1) Expanding the legal justification for a practice is not an expansion of the underlying practice.

(2) He never promised to end renditions.

(3) Where's the source for the claim that Obama somehow expanded rendition?

yeah...he only said "extreme" rendition....don't you love the way lawyers can split hairs

 

[Damocles]

The answer is simple and twofold...

One, after taking office, Obama was made aware of things he had no clue about and was forced to continue the policies of his predecessor despite his campaign rhetoric.

Two, when have you ever heard of one President giving up power attained for the office by another President?

Translation:

I'll say whatever is necessary to ensure that Obama is never looked at like Bush, even when he is doing the same thing I hated.

 

[Canceled2]

The answer is simple and twofold...

One, after taking office, Obama was made aware of things he had no clue about and was forced to continue the policies of his predecessor despite his campaign rhetoric.

Two, when have you ever heard of one President giving up power attained for the office by another President?

Oh I completely agree that once Obama actually looked behind the curtain he had to put on his big boy pants...The thread was aimed at the silence from those who railed against Bush policies that Obama has completely adopted as his own and in some cases expanded.

 

[Onceler]

Man, it's always so weird & creepy to just hop on a random thread & see Yurt bring me up yet again in his obsessive way....

 

[Norman Paperman]

Translation:

I'll say whatever is necessary to ensure that Obama is never looked at like Bush, even when he is doing the same thing I hated.

My apologies if I made it sound that way. I have absolutely no love for Obama...

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

Man, it's always so weird & creepy to just hop on a random thread & see Yurt bring me up yet again in his obsessive way....

nah, not as much as you....and what is even creepier is how often you pop up with a post mere minutes after i mention your name...in fact, i did so today and wondered how long it would take you to say the above...

you didn't disappoint...thanks!

 

[Bonestorm]

Rubbish. I am right. He justified it through his own filings.

This is what you said: "He expanded the PATRIOT act to make unwarranted listening to calls even stronger." But he didn't do that.

Right. That's why he called it rendition.

No, he called it "extreme rendition, where we outsource our torture to other countries." He has ended that practice.

No, he promised to end extraordinary rendition, directly and using those words. I even bolded the portion for you so you can see it, and linked directly to one of his own campaign documents where he promised to end exactly what I said he promised to end. I even explained to you the difference between extraordinary rendition (also called extreme rendition) but you "don't care". Couldn't even bother to read what was directly before you... I'm thrilled.

Again, he promised to end the practice of sending people to other countries to be tortured and he did. He did not promise to end all renditions under any and all circumstances.

Except I don't. Each time I give different sources, in this case Obama's words themselves, to inform you of the truth. You ignore it because you think when he says it is "better than Bush" it's true. It takes deliberate self-delusion to believe as you do on these scores specifically. If you can't just look objectively at reality on this score, then asking you to actually pay attention to the rest of his horrible policy is impossible. You are exactly what you most hated to see among Bush supporters during his 8 years, somebody willing to justify anything and everything he does because you voted for him.

Um, my views on this stuff are quite clear. And, again, I'm not defending Obama. I'm just setting the record straight while, for some strange reason, you want to lie about it. Obama is better than Bush

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

My apologies if I made it sound that way. I have absolutely no love for Obama...

weird...i didn't take your post as a defense at all....rather an attempt to explain his actions, not make excuses