Where's the moral outrage?

Ask yourself what changed from the way the world supported the US immediately after 911 and the way the world looked at the US during Bush's reign. What changed, Ice Dancer? The whole world went nuts but Bush was correct?

Allies, one by one, dropping away. Hate growing in Arab countries. What happened, Ice Dancer?

What happened was Bush made enemies everywhere. The people in Arab countries realized the goal was not the terrorists which was obvious with Saddam.

The point being the countries we so selfishly want to help don't want our help. They don't want the West there. It's as simple as that and the longer we stay the more enemies we will make. Unfortunately, just saying, "Opps, we blew up your country but we're going home now", doesn't quite cut it.

As for Gitmo, yes, it was wrong just like the treatment of the prisoners in Yabba Dabba Doo. (Think Fred.) So it's no longer just us against the terrorists. It's us against the people who witnessed those atrocities. We've added them to our enemies or, more accurately, they added us. Rather than win against our enemy we've added more enemies. The situation has deteriorated, not improved. That's why Obama is having difficulty scaling things back when the situation has grown.

This video is old but it capsulizes what went wrong and why and it's humorous, as well. YouTube - Bill Maher on Think Tanks

I'm surprised that he didn't mention the G-Spot, the tiny area of George's brain which has to be stimulated to get a satisfactory climax.
 
I did not mean that the two incidents are linked, just that the people who opposed the Patriot Act don't seem to be applying the same criteria to the government's heavy-handed attempts to quash WikiLeaks.

Now, it's been reported that federal employees are forbidden to view the leaked files, even on their own time using their home computers.

If this had happened under Condoleeza Rice and John Ashcroft instead of under Hillary Clinton and Eric Holder, what do you suppose leftists would have said?

There is a legitimate concern by our government to investigate Assange under the Espionage Act...period! It has NO relationship to the PA, at least not at this time. Can I see an adoption by the DOJ and Homeland Security in some future rulings and legislation...perhaps.
 
Oh, they would have been calling for impeachment hearings back when the Patriot Act was renewed! I'm sure they would have frog-marched Bush's Administration to The Hague for War Crimes Tribunals by now! None of this has EVER been about what they have claimed it to be! NOT A DAMN THING! All of their 'animosity' towards the wars, the intrusions on our privacy... the whole thing, is a SHAM by the left! It's about their precious Liberal Ideology! Everything they do, everything they say, every action they take, it is fundamentally designed to advance their stupid Liberal Democrat Socialist Agenda, and they simply don't care how hypocritical that looks, or what you think about it. They will merely tap dance away from things they don't want to discuss, make condescending remarks about Bush, and move on. It goes in one ear and out the other, because this has never been about war or rights, it's about liberal ideology!
I am still hoping that Cheney, Rumsfeld and Bush will go on a vacation together in Spain!
 
There is a legitimate concern by our government to investigate Assange under the Espionage Act...period! It has NO relationship to the PA, at least not at this time. Can I see an adoption by the DOJ and Homeland Security in some future rulings and legislation...perhaps.

You have no concerns about the tactics used by our government to silence Assange, then?
 
Ask yourself what changed from the way the world supported the US immediately after 911 and the way the world looked at the US during Bush's reign. What changed, Ice Dancer? The whole world went nuts but Bush was correct?

Allies, one by one, dropping away. Hate growing in Arab countries. What happened, Ice Dancer?

What happened was Bush made enemies everywhere. The people in Arab countries realized the goal was not the terrorists which was obvious with Saddam.

The point being the countries we so selfishly want to help don't want our help. They don't want the West there. It's as simple as that and the longer we stay the more enemies we will make. Unfortunately, just saying, "Opps, we blew up your country but we're going home now", doesn't quite cut it.

As for Gitmo, yes, it was wrong just like the treatment of the prisoners in Yabba Dabba Doo. (Think Fred.) So it's no longer just us against the terrorists. It's us against the people who witnessed those atrocities. We've added them to our enemies or, more accurately, they added us. Rather than win against our enemy we've added more enemies. The situation has deteriorated, not improved. That's why Obama is having difficulty scaling things back when the situation has grown.

You are either ridiculously naive or purposefully stiff necked! The facts and the circumstances are the same. Bush made the decision to use Gitmo for the SAME reasons that Obama does not shut it down! The truth is Mr. Ideology Obama got a fucking reality check when he actually got a look behind the curtain...and that's fine...but it still makes people like you who now make excuses and apologies--- HYPOCRITES!
 
Rendition - I never had an opinion before and dont now.

Gitmo - I understand it is the goal of the administration to close Gitmo, I am willing to give them some more time to get it done.

Drones - I never had an opinion before and would only say that in some cases the use of Drones is cool with me and in some cases it is not.

Patriot Act - I am and have always been very much opposed to SOME provisions of the PA, clearly Obama is not liberal enough for me, but he is better than others and is a good first step.
Rendition, why send them somewhere else to do our questioning, I have and always will be against it! Even with oversight

GITMO, close it, but don't force other countries to take our prisoners! We need to either have trials or let them go! He is still working on this issue, he had a couple of hundred fires to put out from the Bush administration! He still has time to work on this, although not fast enough for me!

Drones, they have their place, spying, firing on citizens is illegal and this practice should stop. I liked it when Clinton was using them to spy! Is that the ranting a raving, I think she is confused, they mocked Clinton for using them, is what actually happened!

The Patriot Act is and always will be a poorly written piece of legislature!
 
Good question. Everything bad that Bush did, Obama's had to make worse in some way or another and the only group that I see still strongly against what they were before are the ladies in pink. And even they have fewer members.
Care to expand on those thoughts, what did Obama make worse, the Patriot Act? the rendition?
 
For the last seven years, the Left has screeched hysterically over the CIA practice of rendition, in which agents turn detainees over to authorities in their home country for interrogation. Never mind that the practice started in the Clinton administration, and never mind that the other options were Guantanamo Bay, release, or two caps in the back of the head; they pilloried Bush over renditions as if he’d thought them up himself. Hollywood even made a movie about how awful the process is, apparently matched in awfulness only by the film’s box office.

Barack Obama exploited that outrage when he promised Hope and ChangeTM, and the Left squealed with joy over the Brave New Obama World in national security. Now they’ll have to squeal again as Obama has had a sudden revelation as President that renditions are more necessary than ever, if the CIA can’t hold these subjects at Gitmo or its own secret sites:

The CIA’s secret prisons are being shuttered. Harsh interrogation techniques are off-limits. And Guantanamo Bay will eventually go back to being a wind-swept naval base on the southeastern corner of Cuba.
But even while dismantling these programs, President Obama left intact an equally controversial counter-terrorism tool.
Under executive orders issued by Obama recently, the CIA still has authority to carry out what are known as renditions, secret abductions and transfers of prisoners to countries that cooperate with the United States.
Current and former U.S. intelligence officials said that the rendition program might be poised to play an expanded role going forward because it was the main remaining mechanism — aside from Predator missile strikes — for taking suspected terrorists off the street.​

More here

Side note: This article predates what was then expected-namely that Obama was going to close Gitmo which he has not done and it appears will not be doing.
 
You have no concerns about the tactics used by our government to silence Assange, then?

I'm not aware our government has utilized any tactics as of this date. The most I've seen is Robert "Family Guy" Gibbs, telling us not to be 'afraid' of Assange. So, as for actual government 'action', it appears we're just letting him continue to publish these highly sensitive and classified defense documents. It's a good thing we're not faced with a real imminent threat to our security.

For the record, I am not pleased with the talks of government shutting him down or whatever, from my perspective, he has committed an act of war against the US and should become a casualty of war. I would much rather a sniper put a bullet through his head, than to haul him back to America for a 3-year civil trial, where he would probably walk. I think a message should be sent to any would-be wikileakers, you'll be swimming with the fishies...
 
I'm not aware our government has utilized any tactics as of this date. The most I've seen is Robert "Family Guy" Gibbs, telling us not to be 'afraid' of Assange. So, as for actual government 'action', it appears we're just letting him continue to publish these highly sensitive and classified defense documents. It's a good thing we're not faced with a real imminent threat to our security.

For the record, I am not pleased with the talks of government shutting him down or whatever, from my perspective, he has committed an act of war against the US and should become a casualty of war. I would much rather a sniper put a bullet through his head, than to haul him back to America for a 3-year civil trial, where he would probably walk. I think a message should be sent to any would-be wikileakers, you'll be swimming with the fishies...


Anyone else find it somewhat funny that Dix is advocating assassination of a civilian that did nothing more than publish documents in this particular thread?
 
Does this bother anyone?

"The American government has issued orders that all federal employees refrain from accessing or reading the released cables from either their federal offices or even their personal home computers. The government seems to feel that they have the ability to re-classify now publicly available documents as ‘secret’, or ‘top-secret’, and thereby circumvent the freedom of access to this information through censorship"...

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsme...se_tells_all_federal_agencies_to_ban_empl.php

"...federal employees are being warned not to look at documents leaked by WikiLeaks website, noting that despite their wide release, the hundreds of thousands of stolen papers are still classified by the U.S. government.

An internal memo sent late last week from the Office of Management and Budget and obtained by Fox News says that federal employees and contractors are "obligated to protect classified information pursuant to all applicable laws, and to use government information technology systems in accordance with agency procedures so that the integrity of such systems is not compromised...

Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell, called Assange "a high-tech terrorist" who "has done enormous damage to our country."

"I think he needs to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. And if that becomes a problem, we need to change the law..."

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/12/05/administration-fed-workers-dont-read-wikileaks/

It certainly bothers me and I'm still waiting for the big reveal that's going to put lives in jeopardy. Surely someone, maybe Palin, has gone through all 250K pages and found the smoking gun? Not just the snide pettiness which is all we've seen so far.
 
Rendition, why send them somewhere else to do our questioning, I have and always will be against it! Even with oversight

GITMO, close it, but don't force other countries to take our prisoners! We need to either have trials or let them go! He is still working on this issue, he had a couple of hundred fires to put out from the Bush administration! He still has time to work on this, although not fast enough for me!

Drones, they have their place, spying, firing on citizens is illegal and this practice should stop. I liked it when Clinton was using them to spy! Is that the ranting a raving, I think she is confused, they mocked Clinton for using them, is what actually happened!

The Patriot Act is and always will be a poorly written piece of legislature!

I agree with all this and have to add that rendition is our way of enabling torture while seemingly keeping clean hands. It's despicable.
 
I agree with all this and have to add that rendition is our way of enabling torture while seemingly keeping clean hands. It's despicable.
Cowardly, indeed, if we don't do it ourselves, how is it better for hired thugs to do it? even with oversight!
 
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