Zelensky rejected peace offer days before Russian offensive – WSJ

BartenderElite said:
Are you implying that we should have bowed to irrationality?
Click to expand...

Of course not. We could have done better though. Logic says that Western democracy is the best for humanity.
But look at Muslim theocracies, e.g. Look at most authoritarian regimes. Their populace would fare far better in a democracy given the somewhat recent history of democracies.
That’s irrational they have to bow to their leaders and it’s irrational their so called leaders aren’t looking out for the best interests of their own people.
But the reality is we don’t actually deal with logical regimes.
It’s what anatta calls realpolitik. You have to deal with Reality not idealism.
 
anonymoose said:
Of course not. We could have done better though. Logic says that Western democracy is the best for humanity.
But look at Muslim theocracies, e.g. Look at most authoritarian regimes. Their populace would fare far better in a democracy given the somewhat recent history of democracies.
That’s irrational they have to bow to their leaders and it’s irrational their so called leaders aren’t looking out for the best interests of their own people.
But the reality is we don’t actually deal with logical regimes.
It’s what anatta calls realpolitik. Reality.
Click to expand...

Power is what matters say the Chinese.

Surely the WOKE must agree.

Look at how they act.

Buckle Up.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Power is what matters say the Chinese.

Surely the WOKE must agree.

Look at how they act.

Buckle Up.
Click to expand...
Honestly I have no fucking idea what the woke want . Seems to me they want to do serious harm to… everything?
You’d have to ask FoulWoman - a pretty good representation of The Woke. :dunno:
 
anatta said:
you post simplistic tripe - not recognizing NATO expansion and US meddling in Ukraine elections/Euromaidan while deliberately tilting Kyiv pro-west
who said anything about a peace offer? the OP was about aborting the war using US and German security guarantee
But you stick with the inane, not even recognizing advanced weaponry on Uk border with a pro-west government is a red line.. you and Biden have that in common
Click to expand...

"Who said anything about a peace offer?" I thought you did in starting this thread titled, "Zelensky rejected peace offer....". My mistake.

To review, I suggested that a proposal by a German chancellor is less than "a peace offer" from Russia to Ukraine, to which you replied that I probably had never heard of a real peace offer either, to which I replied true, I hadn't, please tell us of one, to which you replied with another non-answer, and so forth and so forth and here we are in the usual swamp.

p.s. On your other points, I do recognize NATO expansion as a legitimate Russian concern while the rest of that argument is overblown; Ukrainians are well able to judge for themselves.
 
Last edited:
PostmodernProphet said:
you certainly felt like taking posters to task today.....why not?.....
Click to expand...

Maybe if you could provide an example of what I'm supposed to be taking them to task for?

I have a busy agenda. I can't just go searching around for things to take other posters to task for. You made the statement - please provide some examples & posts of things that I'm supposed to address.
 
BartenderElite said:
Maybe if you could provide an example of what I'm supposed to be taking them to task for?

I have a busy agenda. I can't just go searching around for things to take other posters to task for. You made the statement - please provide some examples & posts of things that I'm supposed to address.
Click to expand...

I find it amusing that lib'rul fuckwits immediately forget everything the other lib'rul fuckwits say the minute they are called to have equal standards......
 
martin said:
"Who said anything about a peace offer?" I thought you did in starting this thread titled, "Zelensky rejected peace offer....". My mistake.

To review, I suggested that a proposal by a German chancellor is less than "a peace offer" from Russia to Ukraine, to which you replied that I probably had never heard of a real peace offer either, to which I replied true, I hadn't, please tell us of one, to which you replied with another non-answer, and so forth and so forth and here we are in the usual swamp.

p.s. On your other points, I do recognize NATO expansion as a legitimate Russian concern while the rest of that argument is overblown; Ukrainians are well able to judge for themselves.
Click to expand...
fair enough the conversations can get lost. I am not going to dissect it further
~~
It's much more then NATO expansion. There is US meddling in the Euromaidan and more

but here's a simple question: Is Ukraine a NATO state?
On paper it's not -in reality it is with advanced weaponry, logistics and training even before the war
 
anatta said:
fair enough the conversations can get lost. I am not going to dissect it further
~~
It's much more then NATO expansion. There is US meddling in the Euromaidan and more

but here's a simple question: Is Ukraine a NATO state?
On paper it's not -in reality it is with advanced weaponry, logistics and training even before the war
Click to expand...

Granting that Ukraine isn’t and shouldn’t be “a NATO state” is obscene justification for killing its people and reducing pieces of it to ruins. But that is the sum and substance of the Russian argument, which is not wearing well in the chambers of power and will only wear worse. Politically, Putin is a dead man walking. A mistake the size of his isn’t survivable. He’ll be lucky if his life is.
 
martin said:
Granting that Ukraine isn’t and shouldn’t be “a NATO state” is obscene justification for killing its people and reducing pieces of it to ruins. But that is the sum and substance of the Russian argument, which is not wearing well in the chambers of power and will only wear worse. Politically, Putin is a dead man walking. A mistake the size of his isn’t survivable. He’ll be lucky if his life is.
Click to expand...
if you understand geopolitics and the existential threat Uk presented itself to Putin it was inevitable war
Especially since USA/NATO was preparing Ukraine as a base for proxy war as well

Agree on the war crimes - that is a factor of Russia not being able to overcome the offensive/defensive NATO weapons on the battlefield. Which leads to a siege strategy of the cities.

My main idea is that our utter dismissal of Russian security needs were laughed off by the Russiaphobes in our government. But it was dead serious to Putin

Diplomatic relations went down the toilet as well- much worse then even against the USSR :toilet:

which is not to make excuses for Putin's over reach - but to expand the blame to the west as well for conditions that caused the war.. casus belli ...by years of this
 
anatta said:
if you understand geopolitics and the existential threat Uk presented itself to Putin it was inevitable war
Especially since USA/NATO was preparing Ukraine as a base for proxy war as well

Agree on the war crimes - that is a factor of Russia not being able to overcome the offensive/defensive NATO weapons on the battlefield. Which leads to a siege strategy of the cities.


My main idea is that our utter dismissal of Russian security needs were laughed off by the Russiaphobes in our government. But it was dead serious to Putin

Diplomatic relations went down the toilet as well- much worse then even against the USSR :toilet:

which is not to make excuses for Putin's over reach - but to expand the blame to the west as well for conditions that caused the war.. casus belli ...by years of this
Click to expand...

If by geopolitical you mean Russia reasonably objected to the promise of a hostile alliance for a next door neighbor say so. But 1) there was no such promise and, had there been, going to war because of it would be self defeating as this war is proving to be; 2) the war has been war against cities and towns. It is itself a war crime.
 
martin said:
If by geopolitical you mean Russia reasonably objected to the promise of a hostile alliance for a next door neighbor say so. But 1) there was no such promise and, had there been, going to war because of it would be self defeating as this war is proving to be; 2) the war has been war against cities and towns. It is itself a war crime.
Click to expand...

All wars are illegal. However, the USA gets away with it repeatedly and is in no position to judge- particularly in the light of blanket political support for Israel's crimes and financial support for its illegal occupations and ethnic cleansing. The US ceased to have a moral voice in world affairs many years ago. Israel has never had a moral voice at all.
Of course, the USA is not a signatory to the ICC- just like its client Neo-Zionist state- and neither is Russia. All the best criminals have a nuclear arsenal and a penchant for nose-thumbing.
 
martin said:
If by geopolitical you mean Russia reasonably objected to the promise of a hostile alliance for a next door neighbor say so. But 1) there was no such promise and, had there been, going to war because of it would be self defeating as this war is proving to be; 2) the war has been war against cities and towns. It is itself a war crime.
Click to expand...

no Iam not talking about promises of NATO alliance . I am talking ab out a defacto NATO state of Ukraine
Ukraine weaponry is on par or the same as NATO.. couple that with the increasingly hostile Kyiv gov't
 
anatta said:
no Iam not talking about promises of NATO alliance . I am talking ab out a defacto NATO state of Ukraine
Ukraine weaponry is on par or the same as NATO.. couple that with the increasingly hostile Kyiv gov't
Click to expand...

Should independent & sovereign nations be able to choose their alliances?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top