Why We Must Raise Taxes on the Rich

NigelTufnel said:
Here are some more liars SF:

http://www.slate.com/id/2291054/

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/13/business/economy/13leonhardt.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss
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Not surprised.... thanks for sharing where you got your talking points from. To bad they are just as wrong and inaccurate as you.

As stated, according to the report you linked us to... the CBO baseline projects not only on based on the elimination of all Bush tax cuts, the removal of the AMT patch, the joke that Obamacare will lower healthcare costs and that Congress will cut payments to Medicare providing doctors, but it ALSO states there will be spending CUTS. It does not indicate what current laws will 'cut spending' nor does it state WHERE those cuts will come from. Thus, from the 'do-nothing' standard.... SOMETHING will have to be done to implement those spending cuts.

As for the above being the 'baseline' projection. It could not be a more dishonest assessment of where the 'baseline' should be. I know the CBO is required to spit out these reports based on 'what is' and not 'what is likely', but even a complete partisan hack such as yourself should see the complete stupidity in promoting the 'baseline' numbers in any way.

1) Neither party wants to raise the lower brackets, yet that is exactly what will happen in the 'baseline' scenario.... thus this won't happen.
2) The AMT patch removal will again increase taxes on more and more middle income families.... again.... neither party wants this to happen. Thus, this too is not likely to go unchanged.
3) Congress has been talking about reducing medicare payments for almost a decade.... yet they continuously have shown they will not do so as they have always issued a 'fix'.
4) Obamacare will not lower health care costs in this country. The CBO again was forced to project that 'savings' based on the crap that will never come to pass (again, the medicare payment cuts were a big part of the 'savings').

to trumpet the 'do-nothing baseline' approach as a reason we don't need to reduce the deficit spending and make drastic cuts is one of the most dishonest things anyone could do at this point. It is promoting a path that will be detrimental to EVERY American.
 
Superfreak said:
Not surprised.... thanks for sharing where you got your talking points from. To bad they are just as wrong and inaccurate as you.

As stated, according to the report you linked us to... the CBO baseline projects not only on based on the elimination of all Bush tax cuts, the removal of the AMT patch, the joke that Obamacare will lower healthcare costs and that Congress will cut payments to Medicare providing doctors, but it ALSO states there will be spending CUTS. It does not indicate what current laws will 'cut spending' nor does it state WHERE those cuts will come from. Thus, from the 'do-nothing' standard.... SOMETHING will have to be done to implement those spending cuts.
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It doesn't say anything about spending cuts. You interpret lower spending as a percentage of GDP as a spending cut, but it isn't.


Superfreak said:
As for the above being the 'baseline' projection. It could not be a more dishonest assessment of where the 'baseline' should be. I know the CBO is required to spit out these reports based on 'what is' and not 'what is likely', but even a complete partisan hack such as yourself should see the complete stupidity in promoting the 'baseline' numbers in any way.
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But it is the baseline. It is what will happen if nothing happens. It's the baseline.

Superfreak said:
1) Neither party wants to raise the lower brackets, yet that is exactly what will happen in the 'baseline' scenario.... thus this won't happen.
2) The AMT patch removal will again increase taxes on more and more middle income families.... again.... neither party wants this to happen. Thus, this too is not likely to go unchanged.
3) Congress has been talking about reducing medicare payments for almost a decade.... yet they continuously have shown they will not do so as they have always issued a 'fix'.
4) Obamacare will not lower health care costs in this country. The CBO again was forced to project that 'savings' based on the crap that will never come to pass (again, the medicare payment cuts were a big part of the 'savings').
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But that's related to my point, SF. The problem is that the current and future congresses are expected to do things that the past congresses did not intend to happen. So let's assume this congress can prepare a budget that puts us on fiscal sanity from now until the Rapture, it only works if future congresses don't change it. And given that the current congress is going to change what prior congresses had in mind, that ain't likely.

Superfreak said:
to trumpet the 'do-nothing baseline' approach as a reason we don't need to reduce the deficit spending and make drastic cuts is one of the most dishonest things anyone could do at this point. It is promoting a path that will be detrimental to EVERY American.
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It isn't a reason to do nothing, it's a metric by which any other proposed changes should be measured.
 
Superfreak said:
O
riginally Posted by Taichiliberal
Translation: Our Super Freak-ing Dunce can't deal with the simple logic of the situation, so he tries to bluff, and Super Freak-ing FAILS!

http://www.justplainpolitics.com/sho...103#post798103

Tax breaks and the like have been on the uptake in the 30 years for the wealthy and corporations...yet prices have gone up for the average consumer. Major layoffs, bailouts, outsourcing....yet some corporations are reporting record profits while Joe Schmoe is getting layed off and can't pay his ever increasing bills.

Simple fact that lays waste to the oft repeated pro-corporate justificaitons by the likes of your Super Freak-ing toadies.
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1) Thanks again for proving what a moron you are when it comes to economics.

2) The US has one of the highest corporate tax rates in the industrialized world

3) You are correct, prices have gone up, in part because the corporate income tax is passed on to consumers in higher prices. Tell us genius, if you think the tax isn't passed on.... WHO do you think is currently paying it? The shareholders? The employees?

4) Of course outsourcing is going to occur if you make it undesirable to do business here. Just look at what is happening WITHIN the US. The same scenario is playing out. Corporations will go to states that are business friendly over those that are not. you idiots scream 'they do it because of slave wages'.... because that makes you feel special. But again, those 'slave wages' are actually 'middle income' wages in most of the developing markets. How do you think India and China (among others) have begun developing a middle class? Learn the what the phrase 'cost of living' means. It might help you to comprehend what is happening.

5) you idiots on the far left love to scream and shout about the evil 'corporations'. Again, corporations are but pieces of paper. It is the OWNERS of the corporations that should be taxed on earnings... don't you agree? They are the ones making the profits. Should they not be the ones to pay the taxes on ALL of the corps earnings? You pretend that the corporation is not passing on the corp income tax to consumers (likely because your masters told you so). Tell me.... would you not prefer a tax system that GUARANTEES the taxes are paid by the OWNERS?

6) I have shown time and again a tax system that is actually PROGRESSIVE. Unlike our current regressive system, it would tax the appropriate people. There would be no way, under that system, for anyone to avoid the taxation. yet you idiots continue to ignore that system, because you would rather bitch and moan about evil 'corporations'.

7) You shout about 'record profits' because that is what your masters tell you to do. What most of you continue to fail to do time and again is actually LOOK at the numbers to make sure you are comparing apples to apples, rather than oranges. Tell us, for these companies you are bitching about.... do they also have record profit MARGINS? Have they had any M&A activity? Are their SALES also at record levels? Do you KNOW the answers to any of these? We can wait while you run to your masters for the answers if you like.....
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1) SF doesn't deal with the results, he just keeps regurgitating the mantras.

2) And yet our Corporations are making record profits...thanks to de-regulation, downsizing, outsourcing, tax breaks.

3) If prices were directly connected to taxes, corporations would NOT wait to raise prices when the removal of tax breaks are threatened. DESPITE tax breaks, prices have gone up. A matter of fact, a matter of history that our Super Freaking Dunce just won't deal with.

4) The Congo, Saudi Arabia, Mexico....just a few examples of continuing exploitation of workers by the locals, despite American corporations setting up shop and benefitting from the production. Oh, and maybe the Super Freak-ing Dunce can explain why American corps tax breaks for outsourcing costs.

5) So according to the the Super Freak-ing Dunce, ONLY the owners should be taxed and not the corporation, which is just a collection of papers. Well, someone clue in SFD that there is a business tax that is separate from the salary/profit owners derive from their business.....has been for years. However, since conservatives have made in-roads in treating a corporation as a person with rights in court, the lines have been blurred. Still, tax breaks for a BUSINESS is NOT the same as the individual taxes the owners derive from company profits. A does of reality that our Super Freaking Dunce wants to ignore.

6) Blathering from the Super Freaking Dunce that does not change the FACT that corporations and their CEO's have been making out like bandits with tax breaks, outsourcing, downsizing, de-regulation. Paying a fair share of revenue tax won't kill them or increase prices.

7) Who are these "masters" our paranoid Super Freaking Dunce is referring to? No matter, the FACTS will always be there to make a fool of the Super Freak:

http://www.wltx.com/news/article/130844/142/CEO-Salaries-on-the-Rise

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/03/27/111113/strong-corporate-profits-amid.html
 
Superfreak said:
Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
Dude, you're essentially repeating the same myth that higher taxes on corporations will automatically result in higher prices. Check out Posts #64 and 73. Once you accept these basic truths and realities, you'll realize that the basis for your assertions above fails.
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ROFLMAO.... you point to two of your previous posts where you state the same moronic claim as some sort of justification that you are correct?

Tell us moron.... WHO do you think those taxes are paid by? You think the management of those firms passes the tax on to the SHAREHOLDERS or the CONSUMERS?
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Our Super Freak-ing Dunce cannot cover his intellectual dishonesty/bankruptcy with his faux condescending laughs. the Corporations have been paying their taxes DESPITE the "burden" of being deregulated, outsourcing, downsizing and enjoying tax breaks for outsourcing. To try and say that they cannot afford to pay their fair share sans certain tax breaks despite record profits and CEO salaries without raising product prices is not only absurd, but disgusting....especially since consumer prices on those products have been rising for the past 30 years regardless. That's the catch in the mantras of dopes like Super Freak...they can't explain price increases while corps/companies enjoy the forementioned breaks in taxes.
 
This one is especially good....

"3) If prices were directly connected to taxes, corporations would NOT wait to raise prices when the removal of tax breaks are threatened. DESPITE tax breaks, prices have gone up."


Its a big surprise for the meathead... DESPITE tax breaks, prices have gone up.....


big surprise.....guess he thinks taxes is the only thing thats connected to prices.....obviously, its but only one of the reasons prices can and do go up.....

As he sees his local school teachers get a big fat raise, or the firemen, or the police and then his RE taxes go up....hes to stupid to make the connection that THEY are the reason hes paying more....
Just can't seem to connect the dots as they say......he actually thinks "businesses pay taxes" from some magic money source that isn't connected to their income
Income derived from their customers...US............dumb gets dumber

As food prices sky rocket along with fuel costs, he'll sit in bewilderment....of why thats happening....
 
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bravo said:
This one is especially good....

"3) If prices were directly connected to taxes, corporations would NOT wait to raise prices when the removal of tax breaks are threatened. DESPITE tax breaks, prices have gone up."


Its a big surprise for the meathead... DESPITE tax breaks, prices have gone up.....

Yes Bravo, YOU are a meathead who is constantly surprised when your ignorant assertions are faced with basic facts and logic. The whine of the corporatists toadies like SuperFreak is that the end of certain tax breaks would automatically raise consumer prices....well, when those tax breaks were granted, the prices didn't go down, did they bunky? In fact, consumer prices have been on the uptake in the last 30 years DESPITE the professed glories of reaganomics. So again, the company line is a lie, and YOU Bravo, are just fucking stupid enough to swallow it.

big surprise.....guess he thinks taxes is the only thing thats connected to prices.....obviously, its but only one of the reasons prices can and do go up.....

See my above response, folks. Dummies like Bravo always substitute their own opinion, supposition and conjecture for what others actually state....and Bravo is just too damned dumb to realize that his ploy doesn't work in a printed media, where the objective reader can check the chronology of the post and see his bravado of lies.

As he sees his local school teachers get a big fat raise, My brother has been a teacher for years, belongs to the union, and has YET to see a "big fat raise". It takes Decades for teachers to reach 70 grand plus, salaries....that includes paying out of pocket for the numerous college courses necessary for the accreditation necessary to expand their teaching and/or administrative capabilities to warrant such. Once again, our willfully ignorant Bravo parrots what he doesn't understand. or the firemen, or the police My father's a retired NYC homicide cop...throughout his 40 year career he may have gotten promotions but NO "big fat raise"..just basic raises gotten through negotiations & standard COLA...so again Bravo doesn't know WTF he's talking about and then his RE taxes go up The discussion was about corporate tax breaks relation to consumer prices, not RE prices ....hes to stupid to make the connection that THEY are the reason hes paying more....

As you can see folks, our intellectually impotent Bravo shoots another blank. Unable to comprehend the basic and simplistic error in the defensive mantra for corporate tax breaks, Bravo just grasps at any straw and throws it into the mix with convoluted logic as his guide. "Bravo" indeed.
Just can't seem to connect the dots as they say Bravo confesses! ......he actually thinks "businesses pay taxes" from some magic money source that isn't connected to their income And as you can see folks, Bravo once again either is too damned dumb, stubborn or a chronic liar when it comes to what others write.Income derived from their customers...US No shit, sherlock....no one said different, the discussion is PAYING YOUR FAIR SHARE OF TAXES............dumb gets dumber Bravo makes another personal confession!As food prices sky rocket along with fuel costs, he'll sit in bewilderment....of why thats happening....
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Folks, just read the above responses....and see the dishonesty or our intellectually bankrupt Bravo. Seems I can't take Bravo out of of the IA bin long before he embarasses himself. Back he goes.
 
Taichiliberal said:
Dude, you're essentially repeating the same myth that higher taxes on corporations will automatically result in higher prices. Check out Posts #64 and 73. Once you accept these basic truths and realities, you'll realize that the basis for your assertions above fails.
Click to expand...

You need to get off your ass and go try to start a business.

You remind me of some university grad who's economics teachers were marxist.

Go ahead and play the game legally, and get back with us on what you think the problem is.
 
Liberty said:
Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
Dude, you're essentially repeating the same myth that higher taxes on corporations will automatically result in higher prices. Check out Posts #64 and 73. Once you accept these basic truths and realities, you'll realize that the basis for your assertions above fails.
You need to get off your ass and go try to start a business.
Click to expand...
You remind me of some university grad who's economics teachers were marxist.
Go ahead and play the game legally, and get back with us on what you think the problem is.
Click to expand...



Translation: another intellectually bankrupt neocon parrot who cannot logically or factually refute or disprove my previous posts on this thread....so he blows neocon smoke. He should take the "liberty" to do some honest research by small business men who are against the Shrub tax cuts....which incidently have YET to produce all those jobs we were promised.

Maybe this exchange will open your eyes

http://www.justplainpolitics.com/sh...t-Raise-Taxes-on-the-Rich&p=799363#post799363
 
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Dixie said:
That is what happens, doofus! Do you think the CEO takes the tax increase out of his bonus check or something?

If you raise the tax on a corporation, whatever service or product they produce, automatically increases in price to accommodate the increase. That's just how it works, and anyone who has ever ran a business or corporation, knows and understands that is how it works. You can run around here spewing your ridiculous propaganda all you like, but that doesn't change reality.

Now, how many businesses have you owned? How many CEO positions have you held? My guess is; NONE and NONE! 'nuff said!
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The Dixie Dunce strikes again! Here's how I put to rest the similar babblings of one of his like minded cohorts on this issue. I trust the Dixie Dunce will do a similar denial of the basic facts:

http://www.justplainpolitics.com/sh...t-Raise-Taxes-on-the-Rich&p=799363#post799363

One does not have to own a business in order to know when they're getting screwed at the cash register and why, just like one doesn't have to be a farmer to know when they've been sold rotten food.
 
Taichiliberal said:
Translation: another intellectually bankrupt neocon parrot who cannot logically or factually refute or disprove my previous posts on this thread....so he blows neocon smoke. He should take the "liberty" to do some honest research by small business men who are against the Shrub tax cuts....which incidently have YET to produce all those jobs we were promised.

Maybe this exchange will open your eyes

http://www.justplainpolitics.com/sh...t-Raise-Taxes-on-the-Rich&p=799363#post799363
Click to expand...

You keep coming up with your talking points.

But neocon?

Face it Taichiliberal, your god is Marx.

You want big gov't, and I want you to live under big gov't, as long as you're in North Korea, Cuba, or China.

I choose to live free from the mandates you represent.

I do hope you get the socialist choice you deserve.

Let me see, neocons want an income tax, a federal reserve, department of education, A WAR ON DRUGS, a social security number for everyone, EPA, wars, an ATF,to name a few.

I just bet you're wanting to get rid of all these neocon things. Because you're such a none neocon.

Right?

Which neocon thing do you want to keep Taichiliberal?

Come on. Lets here your stupid come back remark that doesn't address what's been posted.

By me.
 
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Liberty said:
You keep coming up with your talking points.

No genius, I referred to a previous exchange where I actually back up what I say, while neocon parrots like you just keep squawking what you believe, then cover your eyes when the facts don't back you up.

But neocon?

Yeah, "new conservative" jokers who are die hard reaganomic supporters DESPITE THE FACT that shit hasn't worked in the last 30 years....like what YOU are doing here, bunky. Your "libertarian" mind just makes you an intellectual coward to not admit such, yet your actions speak otherwise.

Face it Taichiliberal, your god is Marx.

And besides your worthless opinion, what logical or factual proof do you have to back that assertion? Either copy and paste the quote, or give the post number where I've stated/asserted/alluded/insinuated such, or continue to blow smoke

You want big gov't, and I want you to live under big gov't, as long as you're in North Korea, Cuba, or China.

And besides your worthless opinion, what logical or factual proof do you have to back that assertion? Either copy and paste the quote, or give the post number where I've stated/asserted/alluded/insinuated such, or continue to blow smoke


I choose to live free from the mandates you represent.

WTF are you babbling about? How the hell is raising taxes on millionaires and corporations (who can WELL afford the proposed increase) affects YOU, bunky? You're NOT rich, and DESPITE the tax breaks over the last 30 years, jobs are still being outsourced, off shore accounts being stuffed, and major downsizing is still occuring. Since when is getting a multi-billion dollar corporation to pay taxes taking away YOUR freedom? Please stop babbling teabagger/neocon/Libertarian platitudes and talk like you have some sense, will ya?

I do hope you get the socialist choice you deserve.

See above responses.

Let me see, neocons want an income tax, a federal reserve, department of education, A WAR ON DRUGS, a social security number for everyone, EPA, wars, an ATF,to name a few.

Really? Because last time I checked the newspapers, magazines, radio and TV shows, neocons, teabaggers, Libertarians advocate either eliminate or drastically reduce the federal gov't, while privatizing the very gov't organizations you just mentioned. Liberals and progressive want improvements to the system. So once again, you demonstrate a "liberty" with babbling contradictions.

I just bet you're wanting to get rid of all these neocon things. Because you're such a none neocon.

See above responses.

Right?

See above responses.

Which neocon thing do you want to keep Taichiliberal?

See above responses.


Come on. Lets here your stupid come back remark that doesn't address what's been posted.

See above responses.

By me.
Click to expand...

See above responses.
 
Liberty said:
Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
Dude, you're essentially repeating the same myth that higher taxes on corporations will automatically result in higher prices. Check out Posts #64 and 73. Once you accept these basic truths and realities, you'll realize that the basis for your assertions above fails.
Click to expand...

You need to get off your ass and go try to start a business.

You remind me of some university grad who's economics teachers were marxist.

Go ahead and play the game legally, and get back with us on what you think the problem is.
Click to expand...

FYI

http://www.justplainpolitics.com/sho...363#post799363
 
King of Kings said:
See above responses.
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If you've got nothing to say, but are just pissed that I handed the Liberty his ass, why not just be honest and say so, then put me on IA? Saves you time and effort, and spares the rest of us wasting time reading this silliness of yours. Now, unless you've got some worthwhile discussion regarding the subject at hand, I'll just leave you to travel your detour alone.
 
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