UAW On Strike Against GM Plan To Close Factories, Lay Off Workers, Despite Trump.

[evince]

Nice language. Trailer trash obviously.

dear fucking idiot


you have no facts to come back at me with


I insult lying assed idiots like you


Its a public service


you see its incumbent that a society publicly scorn and insult liars


Liars ruin everything on the face of the earth

you are a shitty assed liar


fuck you very much

 

[whitecaps]

dear fucking idiot


you have no facts to come back at me with


I insult lying assed idiots like you


Its a public service


you see its incumbent that a society publicly scorn and insult liars


Liars ruin everything on the face of the earth

you are a shitty assed liar


fuck you very much

I was correct. Trailer trash.

 

[Phantasmal]

I was correct. Trailer trash.

You’re naughty...

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Celticguy,

What does that have to do with this ?

They are not building a better mousetrap and noone is beating a path to their door.

Management is the rich, workers are the rest. Management makes all the decisions concerning the company, which have a direct affect on the workers' lives. Capitalism freaks would like to completely stamp our unions and worker organizing. Well, reminder: If it wasn't for people getting together and organizing against powerful aloof decision makers there would be no USA.

Chevy used to say they are the heartbeat of America. Guess what? It's really the workers. That is who the heartbeat is. Without them, the company is dead. Unless we protect American workers we will see all the jobs eliminated thru offshoring and automation. And yes, that is going to happen anyway, but until we get a UBI, people need work. We can't have all the decisions favor management.

 

[Airstrip One]

Is that a hammer and popsicle I see in the corner of that Wobbly video?

 

[Superfreak]

When the crash came , unions accepted steep clawbacks to keep the auto companies from going under. Since then, the companies have made huge profits and returned nothing to the workers. If the companies did it, this situation would not have arisen.

complete nonsense

The government bailout of General Motors (GM) and Chrysler between 2008 and 2009 will cost taxpayers between $17 and $20 billion. The entirety of these losses occurred because the Administration gave the United Auto Workers (UAW) special treatment. The UAW recovered far more in the bankruptcy than it had a legal right to:

Legally, the UAW’s claims had the same status as those of other unsecured creditors, but the UAW recovered a much greater proportion of the debts that General Motors and Chrysler owed the union.
Bankruptcy typically brings uncompetitive wages down to competitive levels. However, existing UAW members did not take pay cuts at General Motors.
The restructured General Motors used taxpayer funds to “top up” the pensions of unionized retirees at Delphi, its bankrupt former parts subsidiary. New GM had no legal obligation to do so and nonunion employees did not receive similar benefits.
These subsidies to UAW compensation cost taxpayers $30.0 billion—more than the government spends each year on foreign aid or on extended unemployment insurance benefits. They account for the entire net taxpayer losses in the bailout.

https://www.heritage.org/testimony/...er-losses-came-subsidizing-union-compensation

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello anonymoose,

A union goes on strike because they're losing their jobs?
And boycotting GM will somehow increase the demand for the products there's not enough demand for?
This sounds like an alternative universe.

The purpose of boycotting GM would not be to increase demand for their products. Actually, the purpose would be the opposite. It is not going to help the workers in the immediate sense, no. The idea is to get GM to bargain in good faith. Everybody can see the baloney of saying 'could' lead to new jobs building electric vehicles. Make a plan. Make a commitment. That would get management further with the union than this wishy-washy stuff.

Ya know if Trump really wanted to create a better deal for American workers he would push for new legislation that requires companies wanting to sell foreign made products in the USA to document that all of those products are following US labor and environmental laws, even if they are not in the USA.

Instead of forcing American labor to try to compete for cost with foreign labor which does not adhere to the same standards (a losing proposition,) it would make more sense to level that playing field by requiring the products sold in the USA to manufactured under American standards no matter where they are produced. This would protect the environment and raise the living standards of workers everywhere.

If an American company believes that it must constantly improve profits it needs to do that by becoming more creative or efficient, not by shafting workers or screwing up the environment. Conservatives call it 'getting away from onerous regulations.' I call it bypassing laws.

I never did understand why there needs to be a constant increase in profitability. What would be so bad about building a company, carving out a market share, and then just maintaining that? Something beautiful is built. A company that produces products, provides jobs. That's wonderful. Why do they always have to screw it up by demanding more more more? Isn't that just raw greed?

 

[Superfreak]

dear fucking idiot


you have no facts to come back at me with


I insult lying assed idiots like you


Its a public service


you see its incumbent that a society publicly scorn and insult liars


Liars ruin everything on the face of the earth

you are a shitty assed liar


fuck you very much

Scorn thyself liar.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Threedee,

Is that a hammer and popsicle I see in the corner of that Wobbly video?

No, it looks like a hammer and sickle. It is the avatar of the person who created or posted the video on U Tube.

Feel free to seize on that to falsely claim that worker rights have anything to do with communism. The person you hear singing the song is quite American, I assure you.

I actually thought it was Pete Seeger when I posted it, but a bit of research reveals the singer is Utah Philips:

"Bruce Duncan "Utah" Phillips (May 15, 1935 – May 23, 2008)[1] was an American labor organizer, folk singer, storyteller, poet and the "Golden Voice of the Great Southwest". He described the struggles of labor unions and the power of direct action, self-identifying as an anarchist.[2] He often promoted the Industrial Workers of the World in his music, actions, and words. "

Kudos to you for recognizing that the song is associated with the Wobblies, the moniker of the IWW, Industrial Workers of the World Union. It has been interesting learning a bit about the IWW. I did not know that the song was written by an original member. I like the song, but I do not agree with the tenets of the IWW. There are a lot of truths in the lyrics, which is why I chose it.

 

[Celticguy]

Hello Celticguy,



Management is the rich, workers are the rest. Management makes all the decisions concerning the company, which have a direct affect on the workers' lives. Capitalism freaks would like to completely stamp our unions and worker organizing. Well, reminder: If it wasn't for people getting together and organizing against powerful aloof decision makers there would be no USA.

Chevy used to say they are the heartbeat of America. Guess what? It's really the workers. That is who the heartbeat is. Without them, the company is dead. Unless we protect American workers we will see all the jobs eliminated thru offshoring and automation. And yes, that is going to happen anyway, but until we get a UBI, people need work. We can't have all the decisions favor management.

If you wish to blame management for GMs sales woes thats fine. But it doesnt change the fact that you cant pay people to do nothing.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello anonymoose,

A union goes on strike because they're losing their jobs?
And boycotting GM will somehow increase the demand for the products there's not enough demand for?
This sounds like an alternative universe.

I assure you this is quite the same universe.

Do you think the union is being unreasonable because they are demanding what they felt President Trump promised them but they are not seeing?

 

[evince]

the reouyblican party screwed sthem

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello COC,

Testing out new names for the UAW! Right now, URAW has my vote. United Robot Auto Workers. What say you all? Try to organize THEM, left ‘tards!

That's fine but the UAW votes. The URAW doesn't. Republicans could choose to stand behind their word that they look out for workers, or they could just show their true colors instead. One way gets you votes. The other gets votes against you. Your choice.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello nolongertolerant,

That is because they knew they were being overpaid already for their skills. No way anyone else was going to pay them that much if it went under. Nice try.

I bet nobody in that union believes that. They've still got a grasp on the kind of jobs that made America great. Isn't Trump trying to do that again? Protecting those jobs would be a good start.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello COC,

Generous union goodies are part of the reason those companies were bailed out. Evidently the unions want to recycle this caca to give them a reason to exist. Those people pay 4% of their medical out of pocket, did you know that? I pay about 20% for my employer plan, and 8% if I use the VA! There are a bunch of other things GM was about to do anyway, but they may dig in now, because this is just a political stunt

If it's a political stunt the result may be turning a lot of red votes blue.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Celticguy,

If you wish to blame management for GMs sales woes thats fine.

Maybe they should lower the greedy salaries of the top execs so they could lower the car prices. Maybe they shoulda put the bail out money into lowering car prices to sell more units. Maybe they have a PR problem. Who knows. I tell you one thing that struck me is how the executives handle it when there are thin times. A local company I know had a rough patch for a while so they couldn't give any raises. And you know what they did? During that time, the executives took no salary at all. Zero. And it's not like their normal salary was hundreds of times the average worker pay. More like 10-15 times. That's how a good company is operated. The people who have money at risk in the company are dedicated to making it work. That means being willing to delay the big payoffs that go with risk.

But it doesnt change the fact that you cant pay people to do nothing.

Who says?

A UBI is inevitable. It's only a matter of time until it is begun.

 

[Celticguy]

Hello Celticguy,



Who says?

A UBI is inevitable. It's only a matter of time until it is begun.

Im guessing thats universal base income.
Who funds that ?
Please dont say rich people, that will never happen.

Back to the subject at hand...

Obama gave UAW an ownership stake in GM so it bears at least partial responsibility for management failings.

Unions obsoleted themselves when they won federal protections. OSHA keeps them safe, wage rules prevent abuse. This strike us about taking the spotlight off the same sorts of inion management fraud that forced BO to take the obscene actions he took.

 

[anonymoose]

Hello anonymoose,



I assure you this is quite the same universe.

Do you think the union is being unreasonable because they are demanding what they felt President Trump promised them but they are not seeing?

No,, but I don't see how a strike would do any good.
E.g., soon I will have to announce that I'm liquidating my business. If my employees go on strike to keep me from closing it I'll just close it sooner. I'm not changing my mind. They'd just be out of work sooner.

 

[Gonzomin]

That is because they knew they were being overpaid already for their skills. No way anyone else was going to pay them that much if it went under. Nice try.

Wrong of course. The unions felt they had to do it to save the companies from going out of business. They took a huge bite to save them. As usual, the companies never think about fair play.
Obviously you never worked in an auto factory. It is loud, dirty nasty work.

 

[Gonzomin]

A union goes on strike because they're losing their jobs?
And boycotting GM will somehow increase the demand for the products there's not enough demand for?
This sounds like an alternative universe.

That is not why. They strike to get improved working conditions, healthcare and other benefits. You can thank auto workers for making all the benefits that you get possible. The 40 hour workweek. overtime pay, vacations and safer working conditions among others. There are lots of reasons to strike. This time they gave back a lot to save the companies. The company should have returned the favor. The incredible profits GM got are because of the unions caring about the company staying in business.