Those poor Milwaukee teachers

What? Of course I am, I expect my bank to fire people with less than satisfactory results. And I expect that you do too. It's silly to pretend that companies don't actually expect production from their employees.

Sure they expect their employees to produce, but what about those at the top of the ladder?

Well, the dozens of corporate CEO's who, over the past 8 years drove their companies into the ground, drove stock prices down and destroyed their employee's 401k plans, all while being rewarded with multi-million dollar "retirement" packages would beg to differ with you.
 
I wish your teachers could have done more for you...:good4u: If you think anyone can teach your are an idiot!:loveu:

You're in denial. If teachers were such awesomely smart people, our students wouldn't be such dumbfucks. Do you deny that our students are failing compared to other countries? Denier.

I would blame the people who are supposed to be responsible for their work, the teachers, but since the unions protect shitty teachers, I blame the unions for half the problem. Teachers are people paid to do a job. They don't do a great job or our kids would all be smart.
 
Sure they expect their employees to produce, but what about those at the top of the ladder?

Well, the dozens of corporate CEO's who, over the past 8 years drove their companies into the ground, drove stock prices down and destroyed their employee's 401k plans, all while being rewarded with multi-million dollar "retirement" packages would beg to differ with you.
Let's make this equivalent.

Do we expect the Governors of the past as defacto CEO to be held responsible for the incredibly poor structure of the schools? Do we hold them responsible when they act as retailers with public money to pay back their contributors who got them elected? Do we expect any change in the "not what you know, but who you know" attitude that prevails in both politics and business?

The teachers and Administration of the schools are more equivalent to the managers and employees, not the CEOs. I expect you understand that poor performance will net you job loss in the private sector, do such failure deserve protection in the public sector? Should we just "give them more money" without some expectation of improvement?

Governors and leaders that we elect to the equivalent public-sector job as "CEO" get just as much of a pass as the CEOs you list here. Hardly anybody is speaking of the irresponsible incestuous nature of the 'negotiations' that built an untenable and expensive system that brings consistent poor results. And any suggestion of expectation of results is met with extreme resistance and claims of "Nazi" or some other nonsense.
 
You're in denial. If teachers were such awesomely smart people, our students wouldn't be such dumbfucks. Do you deny that our students are failing compared to other countries? Denier.

I would blame the people who are supposed to be responsible for their work, the teachers, but since the unions protect shitty teachers, I blame the unions for half the problem. Teachers are people paid to do a job. They don't do a great job or our kids would all be smart.

Whatever you do...don't hold the kid's parents responsible for their lack of smarts.

Oh no...parents who don't take an active hand in their kids education aren't responsible in any way for their kids lack of education.
 
March 5, 2011
Fact Check: Wisconsin's baffling battle over its budget

By Factcheck.org

How High Are Teachers' Salaries?


Teachers' salaries also have become an issue in Wisconsin. One reader asked:

Q: It has been stated (I believe by [Pat] Buchanan) that the average Wisconsin teacher's salary is $100,000. Can this be true?

It's not true that the average Wisconsin teacher earns $100,000 in salary. In fact, no Wisconsin school district had an average teacher salary of $100,000 during the 2009-2010 school year. But don't blame conservative commenter Pat Buchanan for the misinformation. Buchanan, who wrote a recent op-ed on the topic for the Union Leader, was referring only to Milwaukee public schools, and he was including both salary and benefits.

Buchanan, Feb. 23: According to the MacIver Institute, the average teacher in the Milwaukee public schools earns $100,000 a year — $56,000 in pay, $44,000 in benefits — and enjoys job security.

Buchanan cited a MacIver Institute report that included a video clip of Deb Wegner, manager of financial planning for the Milwaukee Public Schools. In the video, Wegner said the average Milwaukee teacher in fiscal year 2011 will earn a total compensation of $100,005 — including $56,500 in salary. But Milwaukee is not representative of the entire state of Wisconsin — and that's where some, including Sen. Rand Paul of Kentucky, have gone wrong. On the "David Letterman Show" on Feb. 24, the Republican senator made a misleading claim when discussing the "generous" average teacher pay in Wisconsin. (Paul's comments start at 9:40 in this video.)

Paul, Feb. 24: But I guess the argument is, is you have to look at the details and say: Have we been generous with teachers in Wisconsin? The average teacher in Wisconsin is making $89,000 a year to work nine months.

There is no official calculation of the average salary of Wisconsin public school teachers, according to Wisconsin Department of Public Instruction spokesman Patrick Gasper. The National Education Association estimates the average Wisconsin teacher's salary to be $51,121. The state Department of Public Instruction only calculates average teacher salary and benefits on a district by district basis. As of fiscal year 2010, none of the school districts in Wisconsin had an average teacher salary of $100,000 (as our reader asked) or even $89,000 (the amount Paul said the average teacher in Wisconsin "is making").

-- Eugene Kiely, Lara Seligman, D'Angelo Gore, Lauren Hitt and Michael Morse

Of the 425 public school districts in Wisconsin, only one had a salary and benefits package in 2010 that exceeded $100,000; the Nicolet Unified School District average total compensation was $103,315. And only 21 school districts — fewer than 5 percent of the total — paid average total compensation that topped $89,000.

The average salary in Wisconsin schools during the 2009-10 school year ranged from $18,983 in Kenosha Unified School District to $72,499 in the Nicolet Unified School District. The median salary was the Loyola School District at $48,504. Benefits ranged from a low of $6,459 in Niagara School District to $36,567 in the Herman Consolidated School District #22. The median benefit value was $25,762 in the Adams-Friendship Area School District.

However you slice it, it's simply not true that the average Wisconsin teacher makes $100,000, or even $89,000.

http://record-eagle.com/opinion/x1422725587/Fact-Check-Wisconsins-baffling-battle-over-its-budget
 
March 5, 2011
Fact Check: Wisconsin's baffling battle over its budget

By Factcheck.org

How High Are Teachers' Salaries?


Teachers' salaries also have become an issue in Wisconsin. One reader asked:

Q: It has been stated (I believe by [Pat] Buchanan) that the average Wisconsin teacher's salary is $100,000. Can this be true?

It's not true that the average Wisconsin teacher earns $100,000 in salary. In fact, no Wisconsin school district had an average teacher salary of $100,000 during the 2009-2010 school year. But don't blame conservative commenter Pat Buchanan for the misinformation. Buchanan, who wrote a recent op-ed on the topic for the Union Leader, was referring only to Milwaukee public schools, and he was including both salary and benefits.

Buchanan, Feb. 23: According to the MacIver Institute, the average teacher in the Milwaukee public schools earns $100,000 a year — $56,000 in pay, $44,000 in benefits — and enjoys job security.

Buchanan cited a MacIver Institute report that included a video clip of Deb Wegner, manager of financial planning for the Milwaukee Public Schools. In the video, Wegner said the average Milwaukee teacher in fiscal year 2011 will earn a total compensation of $100,005 — including $56,500 in salary. But Milwaukee is not representative of the entire state of Wisconsin — and that's where some, including Sen. Rand Paul of Kentucky, have gone wrong. On the "David Letterman Show" on Feb. 24, the Republican senator made a misleading claim when discussing the "generous" average teacher pay in Wisconsin. (Paul's comments start at 9:40 in this video.)

Paul, Feb. 24: But I guess the argument is, is you have to look at the details and say: Have we been generous with teachers in Wisconsin? The average teacher in Wisconsin is making $89,000 a year to work nine months.

There is no official calculation of the average salary of Wisconsin public school teachers, according to Wisconsin Department of Public Instruction spokesman Patrick Gasper. The National Education Association estimates the average Wisconsin teacher's salary to be $51,121. The state Department of Public Instruction only calculates average teacher salary and benefits on a district by district basis. As of fiscal year 2010, none of the school districts in Wisconsin had an average teacher salary of $100,000 (as our reader asked) or even $89,000 (the amount Paul said the average teacher in Wisconsin "is making").

-- Eugene Kiely, Lara Seligman, D'Angelo Gore, Lauren Hitt and Michael Morse

Of the 425 public school districts in Wisconsin, only one had a salary and benefits package in 2010 that exceeded $100,000; the Nicolet Unified School District average total compensation was $103,315. And only 21 school districts — fewer than 5 percent of the total — paid average total compensation that topped $89,000.

The average salary in Wisconsin schools during the 2009-10 school year ranged from $18,983 in Kenosha Unified School District to $72,499 in the Nicolet Unified School District. The median salary was the Loyola School District at $48,504. Benefits ranged from a low of $6,459 in Niagara School District to $36,567 in the Herman Consolidated School District #22. The median benefit value was $25,762 in the Adams-Friendship Area School District.

However you slice it, it's simply not true that the average Wisconsin teacher makes $100,000, or even $89,000.

http://record-eagle.com/opinion/x1422725587/Fact-Check-Wisconsins-baffling-battle-over-its-budget

Come now...you don't really think you're going to disprove ID and her op-ed piece with something as flimsy as actual FACTS, now do you?
 
The fucking Hipocracy here was that these are the same people who were defending bonuses for bailed out bankers for substantially greater sums on the bases of they contractually agreed to and that they needed bonuses to attract and retain talent (even when the dumb greedy bastards destroy their business and tank our economy....some fucking talent) and then these guys expected us to pay those pricks bonuses but let a teacher make a humble $60,000? Oh god forbid! How dare those greedy little bastard!

If Republicans decided to target children, I guarantee these right wingers like Ice would parrot their attacks.

What is really ironic about female conservatives; if there had never been a progressive movement, she would be taking in laundry to raise a dowry, be promised in marriage to the man of her father's choosing and unable to vote.

There is always the option to move to an ultra conservative society that never had a progressive era.

news-477.jpg
 
The fucking Hipocracy here was that these are the same people who were defending bonuses for bailed out bankers for substantially greater sums on the bases of they contractually agreed to and that they needed bonuses to attract and retain talent (even when the dumb greedy bastards destroy their business and tank our economy....some fucking talent) and then these guys expected us to pay those pricks bonuses but let a teacher make a humble $60,000? Oh god forbid! How dare those greedy little bastard!
Can you find even one post where people here defended those bonuses? I know I didn't, so I'm unworried about that. However I don't remember anybody defending those bonuses.
 
Whatever you do...don't hold the kid's parents responsible for their lack of smarts.

Oh no...parents who don't take an active hand in their kids education aren't responsible in any way for their kids lack of education.
they're forced to pay for it, and as such, they're forced to be employed to pay for the inept government teacher to do a shitty job of teaching basics.

Teachers FTW!!
 
If Republicans decided to target children, I guarantee these right wingers like Ice would parrot their attacks.

What is really ironic about female conservatives; if there had never been a progressive movement, she would be taking in laundry to raise a dowry, be promised in marriage to the man of her father's choosing and unable to vote.

There is always the option to move to an ultra conservative society that never had a progressive era.

news-477.jpg

You are so fucking lame
 
If Republicans decided to target children, I guarantee these right wingers like Ice would parrot their attacks.

What is really ironic about female conservatives; if there had never been a progressive movement, she would be taking in laundry to raise a dowry, be promised in marriage to the man of her father's choosing and unable to vote.

There is always the option to move to an ultra conservative society that never had a progressive era.

news-477.jpg

this from the person that thinks hitler and goering were libertarians. :palm:
 
being a teacher is not a special job. Just about anybody can become a teacher, as the reality proves

Seriously, if everyone had your attitude, and the country as a whole devalues teachers as you are here (and, that might be the case) - it won't be more than another generation before we're simply not a superpower anymore.

You're incredibly ignorant on this topic. A real fool.
 
What is really ironic about female conservatives; if there had never been a progressive movement, she would be taking in laundry to raise a dowry, be promised in marriage to the man of her father's choosing and unable to vote.
There is always the option to move to an ultra conservative society that never had a progressive era.
For the historically ignorant,
The truth of the matter is, the progressives of that time, that era, were people of Abe Lincoln, John Adams, Susan B. Anthony....

You have heard of Susan B. Anthony, haven't you, Bfgrn ?

She was a prominent American civil rights leader who played a pivotal role in the 19th century women's rights movement to introduce women's suffrage into the United States.

She published a weekly journal called The Revolution, whose main thrust was to promote women’s and African-Americans’ right to suffrage, but it also discussed issues of equal pay for equal work, more liberal divorce laws and the church’s position on women’s issues.

Quite a lady she was....Susan B. Anthony...
She was co-founder of the National Woman's Suffrage Association.
She was arrested for voting in the 1872 Presidential Election.

She had written to Stanton on the night of the election that she had "positively voted the Republican ticket—straight...".

Does that surprise you?

Another prominent supporter of womens sufferage,
Jane Addams...her father, John Adams was a founding member of the Illinois Republican Party.

You may refer to them as progressive, but don't even dream they supported the Democrats of the day....the anti-civil rights, pro-slavery, anti-women bigots of the era....
 
Aren't most peoples income quoted pre-tax? If someone is making $60k in an area where the average home price is $170k that is not bad. Imagine making that when the average home costs north of $600k. Just to make myself cry I used to pay $2,100/mnth rent for a 800 sq ft one bedroom apt. That sucked.
Wacko, that's God's way of telling you to move to a lower rent district. ;)
 
I have no problem paying teachers more if we actually work on streamlining education and paying for actual results not just giving more money to the same people who have no desire and no incentive to produce anything better than they already give.

Throwing more money at the problem without changing how we do things will only make the exact same result more expensive.
I by and large agree with you but that's not what at issue here. What is at issue here is not the performance of educators (though that is certainly a valid point of discussion) but their fundamental right to negotiate for wages and benefits and that they and other public service employees are being unfairly targeted politically and demonized for a problem they did not create and for which they are being asked to pay an unfair burden to resolve while being denied the right to even negotiate for their own interest. That's just plain wrong.
 
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