Those poor Milwaukee teachers

christiefan915 said:
That $60K is pre-tax, what does net income work out to? Probably somewhere in the low $50s or high $40s. If a quarter of that income goes to the mortgage, these teachers aren't exactly living high off the hog.
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Aren't most peoples income quoted pre-tax? If someone is making $60k in an area where the average home price is $170k that is not bad. Imagine making that when the average home costs north of $600k. Just to make myself cry I used to pay $2,100/mnth rent for a 800 sq ft one bedroom apt. That sucked.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
You're fucked in the head woman if you think taking away peoples basic rights is a solution to any problem.

It's like I said, you right wingers are all for freedom and liberty until someone actually practices them. The first time we have a problem and your solution is curbing the rights and freedoms of others. Go ahead and demonize working people cause that's what you're doing when you demonize collective bargaining rights.

You're a hyporcrit too cause you'd be screaming louder than anyone someone tried telling you that you are worth only so much and that we have a right to fix your pay and that you don't have a right to have a say about that.

And no I'm not demonizing private sector workers when I hold Wall Street Bankers accountable for their wreckless actions for two reason. #1. Their not workers, their management and thus should be held accountable when the business they are responsible for running goes belly up and #2. because they ARE responsible for this current recession and that's an objective fact.
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You are the one fucked in the head if you think collective bargaining against the tax payer benefiting a group through the power of the union who support one fucking party is a fucking right-it's a fucking POWER they should not have!

As a private non union employee I enter the work force deciding to take a job or not based on whatever criteria I choose to accept or not. Walker is not saying that workers can't negotiate their salaries...at least take an honest position in this if you are gonna scream about it.

Public Unions have the power to strangle a states ability to balance their budget-that is NOT a power THEY SHOULD HAVE.
 
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evince said:
Yes your right the benifits costs are high.

Why is that?

Because our health care system is screwed the fuck up in this country.


Now why do you fight every reasonable attempt to fix it to control the out of wack with the rest of the world costs?
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what a crock of shit. the public union benefits of most professions are highway robbery and borderline extortion. one example alone is the police unions. They've wrangled protection from criminal activity for all of their members like the Assistant Chief of a city in michigan ordered unlawful arrests of people simply recording an arrest, confiscated the phone and ordered the video deleted. All acts AGAINST THE LAW, and all he had to do was resign his position, avoided any charges, and keeps his 125k a year pension. he'll collect that for the rest of his life, which could be over 20 years.
 
Onceler said:
Talking about teaching like it's an average "government job" is pretty sad.

I'm amazed that people don't get it. Better pay = better teachers = better educated students = a more productive, competitive populace, and a better economy. It's that simple. It's as simple as it gets.
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It just goes to prove that despite all the noise they make...numerous "concerned" Righties only care about the almighty dollar and not about our kids.
 
Ice Dancer said:
Oh what fucking clap trap... No one is complaining about how much they make the point is they make a good living. In this economy they certainly need to do their fair share as PUBLIC employees and get the fuck off the gravy train known as collective strangulation... Enough is enough already!

And nice way to not mention what is under discussion and that would be their 41k benni's package! Let's not forget that for most married's there is another income in the house and for a single it's A VERY nice living!
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Behold!

Yet ANOTHER Rightie who thinks it's "fair" the super rich get all kinds of tax breaks, but then whines about how "unfair" that teachers don't do their "fair share".
 
ZappasGuitar said:
It just goes to prove that despite all the noise they make...numerous "concerned" Righties only care about the almighty dollar and not about our kids.
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actually Zap, I'd respectfully disagree and say it is the opposite. I'd argue those who fight with the teachers union in keeping the education status quo are fighting against change and improvement in education and thus working against kids.
 
cawacko said:
actually Zap, I'd respectfully disagree and say it is the opposite. I'd argue those who fight with the teachers union in keeping the education status quo are fighting against change and improvement in education and thus working against kids.
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There are some who are genuinely fighting to change the system, there are others who just want the government to chip in for their private educations!

It is becoming so very apparent now what the REAL motives are once again.:loveu:
 
Onceler said:
Talking about teaching like it's an average "government job" is pretty sad.

I'm amazed that people don't get it. Better pay = better teachers = better educated students = a more productive, competitive populace, and a better economy. It's that simple. It's as simple as it gets.
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You folks were shown that paying the teachers more money made no difference. You are a denier.
 
Teachers are just people. They aren't some magical class of humans. they are fallable. fire the shitty teachers and get rid of unions that protect shitty teachers.
 
tinfoil said:
Teachers are just people. They aren't some magical class of humans. they are fallable. fire the shitty teachers and get rid of unions that protect shitty teachers.
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I thought you said they aren't people, could you make up your shallow end of the gene pool mind?
 
Onceler said:
Where is that good pay? If you have a family and a mortgage, that barely cuts it. And we expect top quality with that?

If you righties want to look at this on a level you might understand, think about it from a national security perspective. We're losing ground in basically every area that starts with education - medicine, technology, energy, innovation. Complaining about teachers making an average of $60K isn't going to help us draw the best & brightest into the field, exactly.

Wise up.
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You do know what "average" means, right? That's pretty large for an average.

What we need to do is start figuring out why it costs so much more per capita to fail at something that other places do for less. My guess is we'll find out that Administrative roles have expanded to a ridiculous level. We have to pay the idiots making "zero-tolerance" rules more than people who are actually educating our kids.
 
Onceler said:
Talking about teaching like it's an average "government job" is pretty sad.

I'm amazed that people don't get it. Better pay = better teachers = better educated students = a more productive, competitive populace, and a better economy. It's that simple. It's as simple as it gets.
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It doesn't necessarily follow. The more we hand out money without a true expectation of result the more we'll get the same result regardless of money we spend. More money does not necessarily equal good teaching. Results-oriented education pay is a very good idea.
 
I have no problem paying teachers more if we actually work on streamlining education and paying for actual results not just giving more money to the same people who have no desire and no incentive to produce anything better than they already give.

Throwing more money at the problem without changing how we do things will only make the exact same result more expensive.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
You're fucked in the head woman if you think taking away peoples basic rights is a solution to any problem.

It's like I said, you right wingers are all for freedom and liberty until someone actually practices them. The first time we have a problem and your solution is curbing the rights and freedoms of others. Go ahead and demonize working people cause that's what you're doing when you demonize collective bargaining rights.

You're a hyporcrit too cause you'd be screaming louder than anyone someone tried telling you that you are worth only so much and that we have a right to fix your pay and that you don't have a right to have a say about that.

And no I'm not demonizing private sector workers when I hold Wall Street Bankers accountable for their wreckless actions for two reason. #1. Their not workers, their management and thus should be held accountable when the business they are responsible for running goes belly up and #2. because they ARE responsible for this current recession and that's an objective fact.
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what "rights" and "freedom"...are being taking away...i keep hearing you wacko lefties crying about rights, yet you can't actually specify which rights
 
Damocles said:
You do know what "average" means, right? That's pretty large for an average.

What we need to do is start figuring out why it costs so much more per capita to fail at something that other places do for less. My guess is we'll find out that Administrative roles have expanded to a ridiculous level. We have to pay the idiots making "zero-tolerance" rules more than people who are actually educating our kids.
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The premise of the thread, if you accept the sarcasm of the title, is that $60K is "plenty." I understand that it's the average. I don't think the $60K figure on its own is impressive at all; for people with families, it is not a good wage, in general. It's not the kind of wage that makes people think, "I'd rather be teaching."
 
Damocles said:
It doesn't necessarily follow. The more we hand out money without a true expectation of result the more we'll get the same result regardless of money we spend. More money does not necessarily equal good teaching. Results-oriented education pay is a very good idea.
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Then the question becomes; why aren't you as vocal an advocate for "results based" banking pay?

Why are the corporate CEO's and banking execs who presided over the largest economic collapse in decades not held responsible for the harm they did?
 
ZappasGuitar said:
Then the question becomes; why aren't you as vocal an advocate for "results based" banking pay?

Why are the corporate CEO's and banking execs who presided over the largest economic collapse in decades not held responsible for the harm they did?
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What? Of course I am, I expect my bank to fire people with less than satisfactory results. And I expect that you do too. It's silly to pretend that companies don't actually expect production from their employees.
 
Onceler said:
The premise of the thread, if you accept the sarcasm of the title, is that $60K is "plenty." I understand that it's the average. I don't think the $60K figure on its own is impressive at all; for people with families, it is not a good wage, in general. It's not the kind of wage that makes people think, "I'd rather be teaching."
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60K is plenty when all your healthcare is taken care of also. why do you dishonest scumbags leave out the other 40% of their compensation? Liars! that's why. You can make your case with the truth, so you fucking lie
 
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