The Science Is Very Clear: Schools Should Reopen This Fall

[archives]

Well, WV reached 100 deaths finally. Might be caught up to our opiate deaths.

Jim Justice mandated the COVID Catcher after our numbers jumped up but everyone and their brother is getting tested so it’s hard to know what to make of it.

Maybe WV should build a wall.

Nothing personal “DO,” but few people were anxious to get into WV even before COVID, other than a college football game, I ain’t ever even been thru WV, and probably never will, kinda like North Dakota, why, John Denver lied

 

[Darth Omar]

Are you implying that you have been trying to be funny and not serious? Could have fooled me.

Even I’m not sure if I’m trying to be funny or serious sometimes.

 

[BartenderElite]

All Trump had to do was say he was for opening schools and all of a sudden ‘it’s been politicized’. Just like the absurd chloroquine issue. The left is Pavlonian conditioned when it comes to Trump.

Based on science, it borders on criminal to keep kids out school for another semester.

You're more obsessed w/ Trump than the lefties.

No - all he had to do was say he wanted to re-open schools, and then say THIS is how we do it cautiously: wear a mask. distance. wash hands. And then have a real plan for how schools can stagger schedules and implement basic safety to assure everyone that we're okay to go back to schools.

Instead, we now have very lengthy "denial" montages from him - this is going to disappear, 15 down to zero, it will just be a miracle, we're through the worst part, it's only going to get better, this is just going to disappear, rinse, repeat.

I truly wish we had a leader for this one. We do not.

 

[AProudLefty]

Even I’m not sure if I’m trying to be funny or serious sometimes.

Yeah same here.

 

[Darth Omar]

WV is mostly mountains.

That’s an argument for not shutting down.

Whose idea was that again? Trumps?

 

[AProudLefty]

That’s an argument for not shutting down.

Whose idea was that again? Trumps?

I wouldn't worry about rural schools on mountains.

 

[BartenderElite]

That’s an argument for not shutting down.

Whose idea was that again? Trumps?

Oh, yeah - your whole "Fauci's economy" thing.

Are you reading up on current events? GOP governors are starting to pull back drastically on re-opening - because they opened too fast.

You have to realize that's 100% vindication for Fauci...right?

 

[Althea]

This is just one of the links on there. Not sure how you see that as an anecdote: https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMoa2006100?articleTools=true

This study from Iceland showed that almost 7% of children under 10 tested positive. It wasn't a 'scientific' test to see if it is safe to open schools. The testing was started before there was widespread Covid, and Iceland immediately took steps to prevent spread. Further, the targeted testing was done using people who were deemed at risk based on travel to high risk countries. 564 children were tested.


Anecdotal evidence. The United States as a whole is the highest risk place on Earth to catch Covid. There is no science that shows children don't get Covid.

If almost 7% of a school starts out with Covid, statistics show that within months the entire school will have Covid. That's what science proves.

 

[Darth Omar]

You're more obsessed w/ Trump than the lefties.

No - all he had to do was say he wanted to re-open schools, and then say THIS is how we do it cautiously: wear a mask. distance. wash hands. And then have a real plan for how schools can stagger schedules and implement basic safety to assure everyone that we're okay to go back to schools.

Instead, we now have very lengthy "denial" montages from him - this is going to disappear, 15 down to zero, it will just be a miracle, we're through the worst part, it's only going to get better, this is just going to disappear, rinse, repeat.

I truly wish we had a leader for this one. We do not.

You’re like the one man band who only knows one song lol. Everything is Trump.

Trump says schools should be open *and it’s up to Fauci or whoever* to set the guidelines. The president sets broad policy objectives and the people under him execute it. Just like in any other realm.

But Democrats are dragging their feet because they need the teachers union. And, because if Trump wants it—Democrats are against it. Meanwhile, kids are having their futures F*d with by Democrats and their political agendas.

It’s perverse.

 

[Sailor]

This study from Iceland showed that almost 7% of children under 10 tested positive. It wasn't a 'scientific' test to see if it is safe to open schools. The testing was started before there was widespread Covid, and Iceland immediately took steps to prevent spread. Further, the targeted testing was done using people who were deemed at risk based on travel to high risk countries. 564 children were tested.


Anecdotal evidence. The United States as a whole is the highest risk place on Earth to catch Covid. There is no science that shows children don't get Covid.

If almost 7% of a school starts out with Covid, statistics show that within months the entire school will have Covid. That's what science proves.

That is just one of the links. That is not anecdotal. There are plenty more. Of course kids can get Covid. It just generally has no effect on them. Of course that has nothing to do with why the unions are demanding things like defunding police, taxing rich people, etc to open schools. This has nothing to do with Covid to them. It is nothing other than a political platform and another way of extortion for them. Fuck the kids and teaching.

 

[Althea]

That is just one of the links. That is not anecdotal. There are plenty more. Of course kids can get Covid. It just generally has no effect on them. Of course that has nothing to do with why the unions are demanding things like defunding police, taxing rich people, etc to open schools. This has nothing to do with Covid to them. It is nothing other than a political platform and another way of extortion for them. Fuck the kids and teaching.

There is absolutely no scientific evidence that shows this to be true. Opening schools has less to do with children under 10, than it does with who can be infected as a result.

 

[Darth Omar]

There is absolutely no scientific evidence that shows this to be true. Opening schools has less to do with children under 10, than it does with who can be infected as a result.

Where is the scientific evidence that suggests COVID presents a significant risk to kids.

No anecdotes, no outliers. Just statistics and science.

 

[jacksonsprat22]

Where is the scientific evidence that suggests COVID presents a significant risk to kids.

No anecdotes, no outliers. Just statistics and science.

Run the school with no adults? No teachers, no bus drivers, no administrators, no principal and staff?!

 

[crowonapost]

Please no. For all our sake. This is not a partisan issue. The science is not clear. It is still being discovered. That's the 'novel' in Novel Coronavirus. It is true that children are at less risk but they can still carry it. One of the leading reasons children may be less effected may have to do with T-cells but that's a longer detailed discussion than I can't really get into now. Suffice it to say the immune system is complicated and this is opening up a lot of things we've previously had somewhat limited understandings on how the immune system works.

Let me stay focused though, I get wanting to get back to the old normal, I do. I too would love that but it's not happening, especially here. If we unleash our children into the public school systems it will spread like wildfire. The virus is not in isolation. It may not have that much of an effect on children but it will be carried by them to adults. Adults in the schools, parent's at home, transportation etc. It's hard to contain this virus without draconian measures. It is tough and survives for an extended period of time. It does not overtly effect the body until it has already started spreading. Then the contamination has spread far and wide.

• The key to survivability is limiting viral inoculum. If you get a large amount it can have overwhelming effects on your body by overpowering the body and causing a vicious response from the immune system. If it's too strong it's literally like bombing your body to save it. Leaving nothing but destruction and devastation. This results in a Cytokin storm. That can kill a person.
• It is very unusual in how it infects by attaching to the ACE-2 receptors. ACE-2 receptors are throughout the entire body that is why they are seeing blood vessel, blood clotting, organs and the nervous system getting attacked. This is extremely unusual for a virus to attack this way. This is another example of it's 'novel' nature.
• Though one may not get killed and depending on the viral inoculum it can cause lifetime damage and scarring to your body. So far a lot has been seen with lung scarring. Some people having permanently damaged kidneys, etc. Many with lung scarring also were more asymptomatic.
• Finally the antibodies are being shown to last at most about 3 months which means one can get reinfected. Some have reported getting it worse a second time.

We have real world examples where reopening has turned out very dangerous and had to be stopped.

Sailor your post is dangerous selective information that gives the illusion that it's not that bad because of parsed information. Vetted info like this is actually dangerous to our economy and our lives. It keeps everything crippled and unable to open for any length of time and is killing our hospital systems by people not taking this seriously from selective information articles like yours. This virus does not care about whether you believe it or not, think it's mild or not or our economy or our politics. It wants to use us to spread and either maim or kill us in the process.

Finally there may or may not be a vaccine. The new troubling findings are that it's the equivalent of a cold from hell. In that you can get colds over and over and not have lifetime antibodies but this 'cold' can get worse each time and eventually wear you down until you are weak and damaged enough to die if this is left unchecked. Letting it spread through children almost guarantees we will NEVER get back to any kind of stability.

There is a glimmer of hope in T-cells and we should all keep an eye on that as things move forward in the science. For those honestly inclined to care about the science that is happening in real time this is something to keep an eye on.
In the meantime please limit the viral inoculum by wearing masks, staying away from enclosed spaces without protection and obviously washing your hands.

 

[Althea]

Where is the scientific evidence that suggests COVID presents a significant risk to kids.

No anecdotes, no outliers. Just statistics and science.

The claim on the table is that science proves it is safe to open schools. Thus far, there has been no science provided in this thread that proves that claim.

 

[Althea]

Please no. For all our sake. This is not a partisan issue. The science is not clear. It is still being discovered. That's the 'novel' in Novel Coronavirus. It is true that children are at less risk but they can still carry it. One of the leading reasons children may be less effected may have to do with T-cells but that's a longer detailed discussion than I can't really get into now. Suffice it to say the immune system is complicated and this is opening up a lot of things we've previously had somewhat limited understandings on how the immune system works.

Let me stay focused though, I get wanting to get back to the old normal, I do. I too would love that but it's not happening, especially here. If we unleash our children into the public school systems it will spread like wildfire. The virus is not in isolation. It may not have that much of an effect on children but it will be carried by them to adults. Adults in the schools, parent's at home, transportation etc. It's hard to contain this virus without draconian measures. It is tough and survives for an extended period of time. It does not overtly effect the body until it has already started spreading. Then the contamination has spread far and wide.

• The key to survivability is limiting viral inoculum. If you get a large amount it can have overwhelming effects on your body by overpowering the body and causing a vicious response from the immune system. If it's too strong it's literally like bombing your body to save it. Leaving nothing but destruction and devastation. This results in a Cytokin storm. That can kill a person.
• It is very unusual in how it infects by attaching to the ACE-2 receptors. ACE-2 receptors are throughout the entire body that is why they are seeing blood vessel, blood clotting, organs and the nervous system getting attacked. This is extremely unusual for a virus to attack this way. This is another example of it's 'novel' nature.
• Though one may not get killed and depending on the viral inoculum it can cause lifetime damage and scarring to your body. So far a lot has been seen with lung scarring. Some people having permanently damaged kidneys, etc. Many with lung scarring also were more asymptomatic.
• Finally the antibodies are being shown to last at most about 3 months which means one can get reinfected. Some have reported getting it worse a second time.

We have real world examples where reopening has turned out very dangerous and had to be stopped.

Sailor your post is dangerous selective information that gives the illusion that it's not that bad because of parsed information. Vetted info like this is actually dangerous to our economy and our lives. It keeps everything crippled and unable to open for any length of time and is killing our hospital systems by people not taking this seriously from selective information articles like yours. This virus does not care about whether you believe it or not, think it's mild or not or our economy or our politics. It wants to use us to spread and either maim or kill us in the process.

Finally there may or may not be a vaccine. The new troubling findings are that it's the equivalent of a cold from hell. In that you can get colds over and over and not have lifetime antibodies but this 'cold' can get worse each time and eventually wear you down until you are weak and damaged enough to die if this is left unchecked. Letting it spread through children almost guarantees we will NEVER get back to any kind of stability.

There is a glimmer of hope in T-cells and we should all keep an eye on that as things move forward in the science. For those honestly inclined to care about the science that is happening in real time this is something to keep an eye on.
In the meantime please limit the viral inoculum by wearing masks, staying away from enclosed spaces without protection and obviously washing your hands.

Add to that the fact that this virus has mutated at least 4 times since last year. Everything offered as 'science' in this thread is from the past spring.

 

[crowonapost]

Worth a read. Shows the crookedness of the teachers unions and how they are driving these school closures. Not science.

https://issuesinsights.com/2020/07/17/the-science-is-very-clear-schools-should-reopen-in-fall/


Progressives like to brag that they prize science over politics. Indeed, it’s a major talking point in their effort to “transform” America from the greatest nation on Earth to, well, something else. But one look at the debate over reopening schools this fall shows just how absurd that assertion really is.

Los Angeles, home to the nation’s second-largest school district, is a case in point. The city has long been governed by far-left Democrats, to its detriment. But the local teachers’ union really takes the cake when it comes to extremist positions on COVID-19 and school closures.

The 35,000-strong union put out a staff “research paper” — it was in fact merely regurgitated leftist talking points and propaganda — telling local politicians they would refuse opening unless, among other things, there was a “moratorium” on charter schools and the police were defunded.

Among the “other things” in the union demands were a national Medicare-for-All program, new taxes on the wealthy, and, of course, a federally funded infusion of cash for the near-bankrupt Los Angeles school district.

The proposal would place so many restrictions on students and their interaction with teachers that it would make the educational experience nearly meaningless. But the document went way beyond just talking about education. Here’s a taste:

The COVID-19 pandemic in the United States underscores the deep equity and justice challenges arising from our profoundly racist, intensely unequal society. Unlike other countries that recognize protecting lives is the key to protecting livelihoods, the United States has chosen to prioritize profits over people. The Trump administration’s attempt to force people to return to work on a large scale depends on restarting physical schools so parents have child care.

So much for “it’s all about the kids.” Or “science.” It’s really all about Karl Marx – and more money and more control.

Los Angeles is an admittedly extreme example, but similar things are happening around the country in other union-run school districts.

Unfortunately, most parents don’t fully understand the damage being done to their kids as a result of the teachers unions’ COVID-19 power-play. It’s a real pity.

As we noted, so-called Democrat “progressives,” which includes teachers unions bosses and members, like to say that “science” should drive public debate over COVID-19 and school openings.

Fair enough. So let’s look at the “science,” shall we?

One of the surprising revelations from the COVID-19 nightmare is that doctors and scientists strongly agree that it would be better for young people to go back to school in the fall than to stay at home.

Robert Redfield, director of the Centers for Disease Control, told The Hill last week that keeping schools closed this fall “is a greater public health threat to the children than having the schools reopen.”

That follows a June 25 American Academy of Pediatrics suggestion that local officials “should start (their deliberations on the coming school year) with a goal of having students physically present in school.”

The AAP noted that not only are kids the least likely to have serious coronavirus infections, but that any actions taken should consider “the known harms to children, adolescents, families and the community by keeping children at home.”

It later backtracked, issuing a “joint statement” under pressure from the two largest national teachers unions, the American Federation of Teachers and the National Education Association, along with the education bureaucrats’ interest group, the School Superintendents Association.

Sure, the statement pays lip service to science, saying that “Science should drive decision-making on safely reopening schools,” and that “Public health agencies must make recommendations based on evidence, not politics.”

Unfortunately, the science on the transmission of coronavirus by kids at school is pretty clear.

A number of studies and reports in the U.S. and around the world (here, here, here, here and here, for example) show that, in the words of one study, “children play a minor role in the spread of the novel coronavirus. The virus is mainly spread between adults and from adult family members to children.”

So the medical danger to kids of reopening schools is minimal or nonexistent, while the danger of having parents out of work and unable to pay their bills is very real and has already affected millions due to needless lockdowns.

Think rising suicide rates, more child and spousal abuse, soaring mortgage default rates, increased stress and depression. Better for kids to be in school, learning.

And this is a commonly held idea among leading doctors and researchers.

“Of course, we can (reopen schools.) Everyone else in the world and the western world, our peer nations are doing it. We are the outlier here,” Dr. Scott Atlas, former head of Stanford University Medical Center’s neuroradiology department, told Fox News on Wednesday.

“If you believe in science, science says that 99.97% of deaths in the United States are in people over 15, 99.9 are people over 24,” he added. “The hospitalization rate for influenza according to the CDC is much greater than from COVID-19 for children.”

We don’t close schools because of the flu. Why do it for the coronavirus?

“There is virtually zero risk for children getting something serious or dying from this disease,” says Scott Atlas. “Anyone who thinks schools should be closed is not talking about the children. It has nothing to do with the children’s risk.”

A study by World Bank education economist Harry Anthony Padrinos showed that, among rich nations such as the U.S., an additional year of schooling adds about 10% to a child’s lifetime income.

Based on that, since poor and disadvantaged kids are most likely to be hurt by continued school closures, keeping doors closed this fall could add to inequality and poverty.

It seems clear that the teacher unions and others pushing to keeps schools closed in the fall aren’t really interested in science. Nor do they have kids’ best interests in mind. Instead, they are more interested in their own pocketbooks, expanding their own power and getting rid of a certain president for whom they have a near-pathological loathing.

Yes, they should be ashamed. But shame has long ago left the building.

After scanning through this op ed that has nothing to do with reality or science I must say this is really disappointing. It's some screed about teachers unions, communism and other blathering bullshit with links to Betsy Devos as an example from science. Holy shit this is disturbing man. Fuck.

Sailor please consider the things I wrote. I don't have anything partisan about this. It's one of the few things I don't when it comes to Covid-19.

 

[Darth Omar]

The claim on the table is that science proves it is safe to open schools. Thus far, there has been no science provided in this thread that proves that claim.

The claim on the table is you either have scientific evidence that COVID poses a significant risk to kids—or you don’t.

No speculation, no maybe if’s—just science. We should be guided by science, right?

 

[crowonapost]

Add to that the fact that this virus has mutated at least 4 times since last year. Everything offered as 'science' in this thread is from the past spring.

Yes a good added point. Though from what I've gathered generally mutations cause more stability in virus over time. The one disturbing data set though is that there was a mutation of a European variety that we got here that has scared some Asian countries including China.

 

[crowonapost]

The claim on the table is you either have scientific evidence that COVID poses a significant risk to kids—or you don’t.

No speculation, no maybe if’s—just science. We should be guided by science, right?

Yea well that OpEd is the farthest thing from science and I'm not saying that to insult Sailor I just read it and nope it's an Op-ed piece with rather questionable links.