the minimum wage: reality check

[Taichiliberal]

Any way you want to "spin" it...slice it...etc. Mickey D work is "entry level" UNSKILLED work that requires no technical skills to obtain. An entry level job is just that....and even attempting to compare such with someone that has spent 4 years and thousands of dollars attempting to acquire a SKILL that is worth marketing is absurd. Of course anyone that has spent years obtaining a skill/trade/ or profession....should go into the job market with an expectation of making "exponentially" more of a return for that skill than any unskilled entry level worker. And My "BIG MAC" that used to cost 35cents now cost about 4 bucks....why? Because the pimple faced kid working inside demands to make as much money as does someone that actually has a marketable skill. And if he/she is not a pimple faced KID....and dependent upon a Mickey D salary....YOU SHOULD HAVE BACKED UP AND PUNTED YEARS AGO somewhere along life's highway.

All that raising the entry level wage accomplishes in the end is MAKING FEWER of those entry level jobs available....Instead of being able to hire 15 workers at 10 bucks an hour the employer now can only afford to hire less than 10 for 15 bucks and hour....that is until inflation catches up to the artificial pay scale and the employer price fixes the EXTRA wages into the product or services being rendered to the general public. When that happens that 15 bucks purchases exactly what a buck eighty might have purchased 50 years ago when all this horseshit about BIG BROTHER attempting to "DICTATE" market salaries started.

Of course no one can raise a family on min. wage.....why? It was never intended to be the only source of income for a family. One word think that any head of the household with the responsibilities of providing for a family would HOPE that over the length of time that it has taken to build that family....YEARS, he/she would have bettered their marketable trade skills...instead of depending upon entry level work to provide for his family.

Hell...anyone with any individual drive at all can spend just a few months training and beat the hell out of any entry level position....if he/she but has the desire and a clean record. For instance....it only takes about 12 weeks to become a qualified over the road long haul DRIVER....that has the potential to earn around 100 k a year if a person is willing to put in the time.

There are any number of trade and technical schools around that offer a better life than entry level unskilled labor...these type of schools exist all across the nation and often time can be funded by a state or federal grant..so money is never the issue...the real issue is PERSONAL DRIVE and DESIRE TO WORK HARD to succeed. Today everyone expects to go into the job market at the top...why? Because that is the propaganda being taught today to the gullible.

thanks for proving my point. What drives your little screed is not economic reality, but personal arrogance and plain old hubris. You just ignore the core explanations of the OP in favor of tired right wing mantras. What's pitifully stupid is the one that professes that "...was never intended to be the only source of income for a family". Says who? Please provide the law or legal precedent regarding labor laws in this country that proves what you say in no uncertain terms. If you can't, then you're just blowing smoke.

Another ignorant mantra is that the cost of your burger went up because of an increase in minimum wage. Puh-leeze! http://www.dailydot.com/opinion/minimum-wage-myths-poverty-seattle/

the rest of your drivel IGNORES THE FACT that major employers have outsourced, relocated and down sized while their profit margins have risen in the last 25 years.....or did you miss the news coverage as to how Walmart workers had to take food stamps to supplement their paychecks despite working 40 hours a week?

Come back when you've got something other than taking points from right wing radio.

 

[Taichiliberal]

Why yes. Shocking concept, isn't it?

As you've noted, CFM isn't the brightest bulb on the tree...which is why I have him on IA.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

It goes back to the person who is working the job for $10 who gets a raise to $15, and keeps his job, gets the benefit. The barrier is people who don't have the skill for that job at $15. At $15 what we'll see is an increase in automation and less jobs at that rate (compared to the number at $10). That's where the people with the lowest skill set get hurt the most. They are priced out of even entry level positions. That's your tradeoff.

And what happens to the guy who has worked faithfully and EARNED the raises that got him to $15 @ hr.
What's supposed to happen with his wages??

 

[canceled.2021.1]

thanks for proving my point. What drives your little screed is not economic reality, but personal arrogance and plain old hubris. You just ignore the core explanations of the OP in favor of tired right wing mantras. What's pitifully stupid is the one that professes that "...was never intended to be the only source of income for a family". Says who? Please provide the law or legal precedent regarding labor laws in this country that proves what you say in no uncertain terms. If you can't, then you're just blowing smoke.

Another ignorant mantra is that the cost of your burger went up because of an increase in minimum wage. Puh-leeze! http://www.dailydot.com/opinion/minimum-wage-myths-poverty-seattle/

the rest of your drivel IGNORES THE FACT that major employers have outsourced, relocated and down sized while their profit margins have risen in the last 25 years.....or did you miss the news coverage as to how Walmart workers had to take food stamps to supplement their paychecks despite working 40 hours a week?

Come back when you've got something other than taking points from right wing radio.

Would you try to raise a family on $7.50/hour? I wouldn't.

Why do you suppose people try when they have access to planned parenthood?

 

[canceled.2021.1]

And what happens to the guy who has worked faithfully and EARNED the raises that got him to $15 @ hr.
What's supposed to happen with his wages??

Well that is the point right? That is why unions love to push minimum wage laws as they use them to drive up the wages of their union members.

But hey Taichi apparently is the smartest person around and knows what is best for everyone. If we would only listen to his brilliance.

Here I was thinking people could decide themselves what they could and could not accept.

 

[CFM]

Fallacious gibberish.

You called yourself a socialist. Are you claiming socialism doesn't involve the government taking from one that does have in order to provide something to one that doesn't have the same thing? Are you claiming the college tuition plan of Bernie Sanders supports the idea of the parent of the child providing to that child the money to go to college? Hate to break it to you but Bernie's plan promotes the idea of taxing those that aren't the parents of said kid because those parents won't meet their responsibility. Are you saying Bernie doesn't support social welfare programs where the contributing earner in society has their earnings taken in order that the non-contributing freeloader can get what the rest of us earn for ourselves? Apparently you don't understand what socialism is.

 

[CFM]

As you've noted, CFM isn't the brightest bulb on the tree...which is why I have him on IA.

You're a fucking coward that hides and uses that as an excuse. You hide from what you fear and you just proved it by doing so and making an excuse for it.

 

[CFM]

thanks for proving my point. What drives your little screed is not economic reality, but personal arrogance and plain old hubris. You just ignore the core explanations of the OP in favor of tired right wing mantras. What's pitifully stupid is the one that professes that "...was never intended to be the only source of income for a family". Says who? Please provide the law or legal precedent regarding labor laws in this country that proves what you say in no uncertain terms. If you can't, then you're just blowing smoke.

Another ignorant mantra is that the cost of your burger went up because of an increase in minimum wage. Puh-leeze! http://www.dailydot.com/opinion/minimum-wage-myths-poverty-seattle/

the rest of your drivel IGNORES THE FACT that major employers have outsourced, relocated and down sized while their profit margins have risen in the last 25 years.....or did you miss the news coverage as to how Walmart workers had to take food stamps to supplement their paychecks despite working 40 hours a week?

Come back when you've got something other than taking points from right wing radio.

A Walmart worker that can't make it working 40 hours/week is the problem not the one paying them a wage equivalent to the skills they offer in return. You want to blame Walmart. They aren't the problem. Those offering such a low skill set that the only job they qualify pays minimum wage at $7.25 are their own worst enemies. No one owes them more than their skills are worth. Sad part is you think it's your place to make that determination in a business you don't own. Typical arrogant, pompous Liberal piece of shit that thinks he know more than he could ever learn in a thousand lifetimes.

Keep hiding coward. You run from what you fear and your fear shows.

 

[moon]

A Walmart worker that can't make it working 40 hours/week is the problem not the one paying them a wage equivalent to the skills they offer in return. You want to blame Walmart. They aren't the problem. Those offering such a low skill set that the only job they qualify pays minimum wage at $7.25 are their own worst enemies. No one owes them more than their skills are worth. Sad part is you think it's your place to make that determination in a business you don't own. Typical arrogant, pompous Liberal piece of shit that thinks he know more than he could ever learn in a thousand lifetimes.

Keep hiding coward. You run from what you fear and your fear shows.

Fustian twat riding a turd.

 

[CFM]

Fustian twat riding a turd.

What's wrong with paying someone with $5/hour skills $5/hour?

Freeloading Palewhineian thinking someone owes him a living. Earn it raghead.

 

[Taichiliberal]

Quote Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
Why do YOU having such a hissy fit that along with trying to ensure that selfish, delusional little shits like yourself have decent working conditions and are NOT exploited by the employer is trying to raise people out of poverty and off public assistance (i.e., food stamps)? I asked the other dummy for valid, documented proof of what he stated. Seems he can't provide such. Can you?

Well I think people are perfectly capable of determining what working conditions and salary they are willing to tolerate without do gooders like you poking your nose in. I don't pretend to know what every person values or desires. You obviously believe you have some enlightenment that has led you to the magical answer that $15/hour is suitable for all situations. Well good for you.

The first 3 words of your little smoke cloud here is a dubious statement at best.

I didn't ask for your opinion, supposition or conjecture....I asked for some valid proof to support/prove the assertions of your like minded compadre. Clearly, you can't provide such...as this sad display of your ignorance of the history of the US labor movement regarding the minimum wage and working conditions shows. So if you can't/won't meet a simple burden of proof, I'm not going to waste time responding to you and will let you rant on.

 

[Taichiliberal]

Would you try to raise a family on $7.50/hour? I wouldn't.

Why do you suppose people try when they have access to planned parenthood?

Would you give your hard earned money to a bunch of anonymous crooks with immunity from prosecution to gamble with?

I wouldn't, but many did and suffered a degrading of life style via S&L, the housing market bank scam, Wall St. debacle, etc.

Did you know that the majority of people who work minimum wage did so out of necessity thanks to the recessions lay offs via Reaganomics? It either came a supplementary or sole $$ support of a family.

And did you know that both parents working minimum wage are facing hardships in the economy? Or that a SINGLE person with NO family can't cut it on one job doing minimum wage? Did you forget the Shrub's town hall meeting with the woman working 3 jobs to make ends meet?

What the hell do you have against minimum wage hike? It's not inconveniencing you in any way, shape or form, and it would keep people off of food stamps and welfare....something you right wing parrots gripe about all the time.

Here stupid, learn something from the man who saved this country's financial ass decades ago: http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/03/07/f-d-r-makes-the-case-for-the-minimum-wage/?_r=0

 

[Taichiliberal]

Well that is the point right? That is why unions love to push minimum wage laws as they use them to drive up the wages of their union members.

But hey Taichi apparently is the smartest person around and knows what is best for everyone. If we would only listen to his brilliance.

Here I was thinking people could decide themselves what they could and could not accept.

One of the reasons I have Freedumb on IA is because he never can have an honest debate. His question is pointless.....NOTHING happens to the guy who earned raises, as his employment began BEFORE the new law would be enacted. He entered the job market at the wage rate of his time.....times change. If he's jealous, he should grow up and deal with the reality that the wage he entered at was higher than his predecessors years prior.

Once again, stupid....for your education: Both the theoretical and empirical research point to economically meaningful ripple effects from raising the minimum wage, although even the best measurements of the exact size of these effects in the United States are not completely certain. The evidence also seems clear that in the short run, minimum wages do not appear to have ripple effects for those workers earning middle-class wages or higher. In particular, the kinds of changes in the minimum wage that the United States experienced over the past three decades do not seem to affect the median wage or the wages of those at the top. Minimum wages, then, are an important piece of the policy toolkit affecting wage inequality and boosting stagnant wages at the bottom of the wage ladder. Improving middle-class wages will require other strategies. http://equitablegrowth.org/raising-minimum-wage-ripples-workforce/

 

[cawacko]

Would you give your hard earned money to a bunch of anonymous crooks with immunity from prosecution to gamble with?

I wouldn't, but many did and suffered a degrading of life style via S&L, the housing market bank scam, Wall St. debacle, etc.

Did you know that the majority of people who work minimum wage did so out of necessity thanks to the recessions lay offs via Reaganomics? It either came a supplementary or sole $$ support of a family.

And did you know that both parents working minimum wage are facing hardships in the economy? Or that a SINGLE person with NO family can't cut it on one job doing minimum wage? Did you forget the Shrub's town hall meeting with the woman working 3 jobs to make ends meet?

What the hell do you have against minimum wage hike? It's not inconveniencing you in any way, shape or form, and it would keep people off of food stamps and welfare....something you right wing parrots gripe about all the time.

Here stupid, learn something from the man who saved this country's financial ass decades ago: http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com...of that experience has negative consequences.

 

[Mircea]

Actually, it's all about honesty...which obviously YOU are lacking. But let's say you're telling the truth; that would mean you would have had to live with your parents for a LOT more than 4 years in order to maintain a full/part time job AND put in the study hours AND course requirements.
It would also mean that your minimum wage job would just BARELY cover book expenses, travel, what rent you'd throw your parents. Then there's the little matter of TUITION....as you can only be eligible for some much in loans from federal and private. SO, unless mommy and Daddy paid your tuition, or you became well off in the job market, you'd be either up to your ass in debt right now or could NOT afford to make a secondary degree, much less 2 undergraduate. Also, you would be a VERY OLD college student.

the majority of folk out there don't have parents well off enough to cover all those bases. So you'll understand why I find your little tale a lame fantasy.

I was 41 at the time I went back to school. I already had a Bachelor's, so it only took 2 years to double major in Econ and Poli Sci. I shared a house with other students and non-students. We didn't waste money on cable or cellphones. I didn't have a car to waste money on, either. I got a stipend of $12,000 as a TA during the time I got my Master's (Poli Sci) and PhD (International Relations) and I taught 1st year IR classes in exchange for tuition credits to get my PhD. I managed to save up enough money to live alone my last year of school.

Those who have the desire will simply do it, and those that don't will do nothing but sit around making excuse after excuse.

 

[CFM]

Would you give your hard earned money to a bunch of anonymous crooks with immunity from prosecution to gamble with?

I wouldn't, but many did and suffered a degrading of life style via S&L, the housing market bank scam, Wall St. debacle, etc.

Did you know that the majority of people who work minimum wage did so out of necessity thanks to the recessions lay offs via Reaganomics? It either came a supplementary or sole $$ support of a family.

And did you know that both parents working minimum wage are facing hardships in the economy? Or that a SINGLE person with NO family can't cut it on one job doing minimum wage? Did you forget the Shrub's town hall meeting with the woman working 3 jobs to make ends meet?

What the hell do you have against minimum wage hike? It's not inconveniencing you in any way, shape or form, and it would keep people off of food stamps and welfare....something you right wing parrots gripe about all the time.

Here stupid, learn something from the man who saved this country's financial ass decades ago: http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/03/07/f-d-r-makes-the-case-for-the-minimum-wage/?_r=0

The majority of people that work for minimum wage do so because the skills required to do the job and what they offer in the way of skills is of such low level, the only way they get that is because the government forces employers to pay it. Don't blame the one paying what those skills are worth. Blame the one offering such low skills.

There is no guarantee is would keep people off food stamps or welfare. There are so many factors that determine that, saying one would change it proves you don't have a clue about economics.

 

[Mircea]

What the hell do you have against minimum wage hike? It's not inconveniencing you in any way, shape or form, and it would keep people off of food stamps and welfare....something you right wing parrots gripe about all the time.

The federal minimum wage has increased 16 times since 1965 and it never kept people off of Food Stamps or Welfare.

Wages/salaries are determined by Supply & Demand for a given Skill-set in a specific Labor Market.

Get over it.

 

[CFM]

One of the reasons I have Freedumb on IA is because he never can have an honest debate. His question is pointless.....NOTHING happens to the guy who earned raises, as his employment began BEFORE the new law would be enacted. He entered the job market at the wage rate of his time.....times change. If he's jealous, he should grow up and deal with the reality that the wage he entered at was higher than his predecessors years prior.

Once again, stupid....for your education: Both the theoretical and empirical research point to economically meaningful ripple effects from raising the minimum wage, although even the best measurements of the exact size of these effects in the United States are not completely certain. The evidence also seems clear that in the short run, minimum wages do not appear to have ripple effects for those workers earning middle-class wages or higher. In particular, the kinds of changes in the minimum wage that the United States experienced over the past three decades do not seem to affect the median wage or the wages of those at the top. Minimum wages, then, are an important piece of the policy toolkit affecting wage inequality and boosting stagnant wages at the bottom of the wage ladder. Improving middle-class wages will require other strategies. http://equitablegrowth.org/raising-minimum-wage-ripples-workforce/

The only reason you have anyone on IA is because you're a pussy that's scared to hear the other side of things. It's interesting that those you have on IA are the ones that disagree with you. Funny how that works.

 

[CFM]

The federal minimum wage has increased 16 times since 1965 and it never kept people off of Food Stamps or Welfare.

Wages/salaries are determined by Supply & Demand for a given Skill-set in a specific Labor Market.

Get over it.

Those that say raising minimum wage will keep people off welfare and food stamps claim raising it will mean those people will also pay income taxes. In some cases that may be true. In many, it isn't.

 

[Taichiliberal]

Would you give your hard earned money to a bunch of anonymous crooks with immunity from prosecution to gamble with?

I wouldn't, but many did and suffered a degrading of life style via S&L, the housing market bank scam, Wall St. debacle, etc.

Did you know that the majority of people who work minimum wage did so out of necessity thanks to the recessions lay offs via Reaganomics? It either came a supplementary or sole $$ support of a family.

And did you know that both parents working minimum wage are facing hardships in the economy? Or that a SINGLE person with NO family can't cut it on one job doing minimum wage? Did you forget the Shrub's town hall meeting with the woman working 3 jobs to make ends meet?

What the hell do you have against minimum wage hike? It's not inconveniencing you in any way, shape or form, and it would keep people off of food stamps and welfare....something you right wing parrots gripe about all the time.

Here stupid, learn something from the man who saved this country's financial ass decades ago: http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com...myths-about-raising-the-minimum-wage-debunked