the minimum wage: reality check

tsuke said:
sweden denmark norway and the other liberal model states dont have national minimum wage. They do it by industry. National minimum wage would be a disaster. Not every state is as economically advanced as Ny or Ca. A lot of the flyover states would not be able to afford a 15$ national minimum wage.
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sure they can and it can be done in a pro business model. You just lack the imagination to see it.

The valid question any business has is what do they get in return for increasing wages this much? How do they profit from higher wages? They don't owe anyone a living wage.
 
Mircea said:
If that doesn't motivate people to better themselves to find better paying jobs, then fuck them.
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There's more to it than that. We can't just let these people starve, not a politically sound alternative, nor is it smart to not incentivize these people to not have a work ethic. If these people are motivated to work full time it's pretty damned short sighted to not encourage them. The low wage and no other available jobs can be a trap into dependence. It's madness to have someone motivated to work full time and still be dependent on the government. It disincentivizes and demotivates. It's equally mad to shift this societal burden on small business owners.

How about this as a solution. A two tiered minimum wage. $9/hr for part time work of less than 25 hours per week. $15/hr for over 25 hours per week. For every dollar over $9/hr that employer pays in wages he receives a one dollar reduction in the taxes they owe up to the $15/hr min wage.

The small business owner won't have to carry the burden and the extra income will be spent causing an economic stimulus and thus more tax revenue.
 
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SmarterthanYou said:
the whole entire generation of whiny fucks who think they are entitled to some damned 'living' wage need to grow a pair of balls and bust their ass improving themselves like those of us in our 40s and 50s did. I was digging ditches in 100 degree temps for $6 an hour before I found a good tech job, so can you whiny entitled fucks.
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but then we end up subsidizing people with our tax dollars so that can be a catch-22.
 
callinectes said:
Why do people want to make a career out of a summer job I had in 1973 to save up for a POS motorcycle? If you're "ON YOUR FEET CONSTANTLY DOING REPETITIVE WORK" for the minimum wage at the age of 30+, you've failed. And that's not a bad thing, BTW. It frequently motivates people.
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it also cost the tax payers a lot of money to make sure they don't starve or are denied health care.
 
Darth Hussein Omar said:
Less jobs because many employers can't afford to pay that kind of wage.

You've never ran a business, have you, lol.

So, I understand why you don't know.
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not necessarily true. What if we give the business owner a equivalent reduction in their taxes? Net some cost to them would be zero.

Not only that but it would save the government funds spent on assistance and it would create an economic stimulus. That means less people dependent on government, incentivizing work ethic and growth in the economy.
 
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Mott the Hoople said:
not necessarily true. What if we give the business owner a equivalent reduction in their taxes? Net some cost to them would be zero. Not only that but it would save the government funds spent on assistance and it would create an economic stimulus.
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That's godless Communism.

Trickle-down just needs a few more centuries of corporate subsidies and tax cuts for job creators before it can start producing results. Then you'll see, Mott.
 
Taichiliberal said:
What has really ticked me off regarding this debate on raising the minimum wage to $15/hr is when some joker says, "why did I bother going to college when I could just flip burgers now?"

Well toodles, for starters if you're lucky enough to get a full time job right out of college based on your college degree, you'll be working 8 hours a week, most likely 9 am 5 pm with an hour off for lunch, some type of basic health insurance, and limited PAID vacation and sick days.

the average fast food worker gets shifts they have to choose from (if they're lucky to have that choice) during the work week which may NOT add up to 40 hours (the shifts are either during the day or night....some franchises have graveyard shifts from dusk to dawn), so they would have to take on extra shifts. Most do NOT get an hour off for lunch, much less a paid hour.... and prior to the enactment of the ACA (Obamacare), many saw NO paid sick or vacation days (still don't) and no health insurance of any kind.

Then there's the little thing of BEING ON YOUR FEET CONSTANTLY DOING REPETITIVE WORK.

So next time the anti $15/hr folk want to raise that old mantra, I suggest they think it through.

Oh, and just to cover all the bases: http://www.raisetheminimumwage.com/pages/job-loss
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Any way you want to "spin" it...slice it...etc. Mickey D work is "entry level" UNSKILLED work that requires no technical skills to obtain. An entry level job is just that....and even attempting to compare such with someone that has spent 4 years and thousands of dollars attempting to acquire a SKILL that is worth marketing is absurd. Of course anyone that has spent years obtaining a skill/trade/ or profession....should go into the job market with an expectation of making "exponentially" more of a return for that skill than any unskilled entry level worker. And My "BIG MAC" that used to cost 35cents now cost about 4 bucks....why? Because the pimple faced kid working inside demands to make as much money as does someone that actually has a marketable skill. And if he/she is not a pimple faced KID....and dependent upon a Mickey D salary....YOU SHOULD HAVE BACKED UP AND PUNTED YEARS AGO somewhere along life's highway.

All that raising the entry level wage accomplishes in the end is MAKING FEWER of those entry level jobs available....Instead of being able to hire 15 workers at 10 bucks an hour the employer now can only afford to hire less than 10 for 15 bucks and hour....that is until inflation catches up to the artificial pay scale and the employer price fixes the EXTRA wages into the product or services being rendered to the general public. When that happens that 15 bucks purchases exactly what a buck eighty might have purchased 50 years ago when all this horseshit about BIG BROTHER attempting to "DICTATE" market salaries started.

Of course no one can raise a family on min. wage.....why? It was never intended to be the only source of income for a family. One word think that any head of the household with the responsibilities of providing for a family would HOPE that over the length of time that it has taken to build that family....YEARS, he/she would have bettered their marketable trade skills...instead of depending upon entry level work to provide for his family.

Hell...anyone with any individual drive at all can spend just a few months training and beat the hell out of any entry level position....if he/she but has the desire and a clean record. For instance....it only takes about 12 weeks to become a qualified over the road long haul DRIVER....that has the potential to earn around 100 k a year if a person is willing to put in the time.

There are any number of trade and technical schools around that offer a better life than entry level unskilled labor...these type of schools exist all across the nation and often time can be funded by a state or federal grant..so money is never the issue...the real issue is PERSONAL DRIVE and DESIRE TO WORK HARD to succeed. Today everyone expects to go into the job market at the top...why? Because that is the propaganda being taught today to the gullible.
 
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Ralph said:
Any way you want to "spin" it...slice it...etc. Mickey D work is "entry level" UNSKILLED work that requires no technical skills to obtain. An entry level job is just that....and even attempting to compare someone that has spent 4 years and thousands of dollars attempting to acquire a SKILL that is worth marketing is absurd.

All that raising the entry level wage accomplishes in the end is MAKING FEWER of those entry level jobs available....until inflation catches up to the artificial pay scale and the employer price fixes the EXTRA wages into the product or services being rendered to the general public.

Of course no one can raise a family on min. wage.....why? It was never intended to be the only source of income for a family. On word think than any head of the household with the responsibilities of providing for a family would HOPE that over the length of time that it has taken to build that family....YEARS, he/she would have bettered their marketable trade skills.
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Fine. How much of the tax dollars money are you willing to spend then in government assistance or jobs training?
 
I heard that some bearded leftist was going around wearing sandals quoting Communist stuff.

I even heard that his followers read a book that has all kinds of America-hating Socialist claptrap in it.

Here's a sample: "The worker is worthy of his wages."

Thank the Lord Jesus that President Trump will put a stop to the insanity and Make America Great Again.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Fine. How much of the tax dollars money are you willing to spend then in government assistance or jobs training?
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That money has to go to banks and big job creators in the form of subsidies and tax incentives, Mott.

Even attempting to compare someone that has spent years and millions of dollars attempting to influence Congress to poor folks is absurd.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
sure they can and it can be done in a pro business model. You just lack the imagination to see it.

The valid question any business has is what do they get in return for increasing wages this much? How do they profit from higher wages? They don't owe anyone a living wage.
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Apparently nothing if you listen to what those demanding a $15 minimum say. I've yet to hear one say what those getting such a wage increase are going to do to in return for it.
 
Legion Troll said:
That money has to go to banks and big job creators in the form of subsidies and tax incentives, Mott.

Even attempting to compare someone that has spent years and millions of dollars attempting to influence Congress to poor folks is absurd.
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What contribution does a low skilled/no skilled worker currently making minimum wage contribute to society?
 
Legion Troll said:
I heard that some bearded leftist was going around wearing sandals quoting Communist stuff.

I even heard that his followers read a book that has all kinds of America-hating Socialist claptrap in it.

Here's a sample: "The worker is worthy of his wages."

Thank the Lord Jesus that President Trump will put a stop to the insanity and Make America Great Again.
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Jesus didn't teach socialism. Not one thing he taught involved the government mandating one person be forced to provide to another no matter how you twist it.

Keep trying. Someday you might be up to the intellectual level of a monkey.
 
CFM said:
Jesus didn't teach socialism. Not one thing he taught involved the government mandating one person be forced to provide to another no matter how you twist it.

Keep trying. Someday you might be up to the intellectual level of a monkey.
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All hail Supply side Jesus.
 
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