The Language of God

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Logic indeed applies to Newton's 3rd law of motion, just as it applies to water being wet, bowling balls landing on your foot or the creation of the universe. Logic itself, is reason! We apply logic to virtually every aspect of our daily lives, and you would be hard pressed to find an instance where logic fails.

In fact... try this LOGIC experiment... Name one thing in our universe, it can be an element, a material thing, whatever.... that we have determined with 100% certainty, it has no purpose or reason for being? Read carefully... we have to be 100% certain, beyond any shadow of a doubt, there is no reason or purpose for 'whatever' existing. Can you do that please?

After you've racked your brain, perhaps you will come to understand what I am saying here. LOGIC is the tool we use to reason and rationalize things... when we apply LOGIC to the question of the existence of the universe, we can't avoid the question of WHY the universe came to be. There is a reason and/or purpose for everything in our known universe, there are many things we don't comprehend the reason and purpose for, but one certainly does exist, for every single thing you can name in our universe. Cause and effect, action and reaction, logic and reason.

 

[Minister of Truth]

The Second Law of Thermodynamics states that matter is neither created or destroyed, but merely changes form, meaning that the universe cannot have been created by scientific means. It also suggests that the Big Rip theory is a joke.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

The Second Law of Thermodynamics states that matter is neither created or destroyed, but merely changes form, meaning that the universe cannot have been created by scientific means.

Three, you are applying the second law of thermodynamics to a place where there are no laws of physics. What a tard.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Logic indeed applies to Newton's 3rd law of motion

They are completely and totally unrelated. They cannot be applied to one another, because physics and logic are not the same thing.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

They are completely and totally unrelated. They cannot be applied to one another, because physics and logic are not the same thing.

Logic is a set of principles of reason which can be applied to any branch of knowledge or study. So logic can certainly be applied to physics. They don't have to be the same thing, and I never claimed they were the same thing. I gave you an EXAMPLE of logic, and I guess you thought I was giving you a definition, but I had already posted the definition.

In your profound state of retardation, it might be wise for you to just avoid this topic. At least go and educate yourself on what the hell LOGIC is before you continue to show what a tard you are.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Logic itself, is reason!

No it isn't. Logic and reason are two distinctly different things.

We apply logic to virtually every aspect of our daily lives, and you would be hard pressed to find an instance where logic fails.

This reminds me of the beginning of most textbooks where they state something so general as to be utterly meaningless.

In fact... try this LOGIC experiment... Name one thing in our universe, it can be an element, a material thing, whatever.... that we have determined with 100% certainty, it has no purpose or reason for being? Read carefully... we have to be 100% certain, beyond any shadow of a doubt, there is no reason or purpose for 'whatever' existing. Can you do that please?

Something can be so improbable that it is irrational to take it into account, however, nothing can be so improbable so as that it's impossible.

However, the probability of oxygen being put into the universe, by a sentient being, for a "reason" is so infinitesimal that a rational person need not take it into serious consideration. That and everything else. Just because oxygen can give us energy and allow us to live doesn't mean that a sentient being had that as its "reason".

If you're version of "reason" does not include the requirement of a sentient being, then congratulations, captain obvious, for wasting our times. The fact that you can find a possible purpose for an object doesn't mean it was THE REASON PUT IN PLACE BY THE CREATOR. Fucking moron.

After you've racked your brain, perhaps you will come to understand what I am saying here. LOGIC is the tool we use to reason and rationalize things... when we apply LOGIC to the question of the existence of the universe, we can't avoid the question of WHY the universe came to be. There is a reason and/or purpose for everything in our known universe, there are many things we don't comprehend the reason and purpose for, but one certainly does exist, for every single thing you can name in our universe. Cause and effect, action and reaction, logic and reason.

You can't prove that any reason for anything was put here by a sentient creator. And BTW, the third law of motion has nothing to do with logic.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Logic is a set of principles of reason which can be applied to any branch of knowledge or study.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic

Logic is the art and science of reasoning which seeks to identify and understand the principles of valid demonstration and inference. Logic is a branch of philosophy strongly joined with mathematics [1] and was part of the classical Trivium. As a discipline, logic dates back to Aristotle and remains integral to fields such as mathematics, computer science, and linguistics. The word derives from the Greek λογική (logiké), fem. of λογικός (logikos), "possessed of reason, intellectual, dialectical, argumentative", and from λόγος logos, "word, thought, idea, argument, account, reason, or principle".[2][3]

Logic concerns the structure of statements and arguments, in formal systems of inference and natural language. Topics include validity, fallacies and paradoxes, reasoning using probability and arguments involving causality. Logic is also commonly used today in argumentation theory.[4]

So logic can certainly be applied to physics.

Now you are garbling up my words and creating a strawman, yet another logical fallacy.

I didn't say that logic cannot be applied to physics. Logic is what the scientific method is based on. However, Newton's third law of motion is not a logical principle. That is fucking stupidity.

They don't have to be the same thing, and I never claimed they were the same thing.

You said that Newton's third law of motion was something to do with logic. It is not.

gave you an EXAMPLE of logic,

No you didn't. You gave me Newton's third law of motion.

and I guess you thought I was giving you a definition, but I had already posted the definition.

No, I did not think you were giving me the definition of logic, I thought you were using Newton's third law of motion as if it were a logical principle and applying it to something other than motion, which is illogical.

In your profound state of retardation, it might be wise for you to just avoid this topic. At least go and educate yourself on what the hell LOGIC is before you continue to show what a tard you are.

Logic is a branch of philosophy having to do with arguments. Newton's third law of motion is not one of it's principles.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

You should educate yourself Waterhead... seriously dude, you have some real problems.

Logic IS reason, it is printed in black and white right there in the definition you posted.

Logic is the art and science of reasoning...

The word derives from the Greek λογική (logiké), fem. of λογικός (logikos), "possessed of reason, intellectual, dialectical, argumentative", and from λόγος logos, "word, thought, idea, argument, account, reason, or principle".

I didn't say that logic cannot be applied to physics.

really? You didn't type this...
They are completely and totally unrelated. They cannot be applied to one another, because physics and logic are not the same thing.


Gee Waterhead, it's posted right there under your name, is someone hacking your computer? It's what you fucking said you pathetic dipshit liar!

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

You said that Newton's third law of motion was something to do with logic. It is not.

So, in your mind, Newton's Law is ILLOGICAL?

You really do need help man!

 

[ib1yysguy]

There are a lot of things in science that defy "logic." Not that you're intelligent enough to understand the explanation, but do some looking into quantum physics and you'll find that particles act in ways that defy logic. Particles will pass through two places at one time, things happen before they began, etc.

This entire string of argumentation of yours is totally retarded. The fact that the universe had a CAUSE does not mean the universe has a purpose. A bowling ball rolling off a table and hitting your foot is CAUSED by gravity. Thats HOW the ball rolled onto your foot. Why did the ball roll onto your foot? THERES NO REASON WHY. There wasn't a purpose behind it. Things can happen in the physical universe due purely to chance and having no logical reason whatsoever.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Something can be so improbable that it is irrational to take it into account, however, nothing can be so improbable so as that it's impossible.

Ahh yes.... INCLUDING the possibility of a Creator, Intelligent Designer, and God, as well as a REASON AND PURPOSE for the creation of the universe. Those things all remain viable and completely possible, perhaps even, probable. You are the one who has drawn a conclusion and ignored logic to determine there is no God or Creator, and no purpose or reason for the universe.

You can't prove that any reason for anything was put here by a sentient creator.

Likewise, you can not prove the opposite. I have not mentioned a "sentient creator" and mostly it keeps being brought up by Atheist igmo's who want to deny logic and reality so they can cling to their anti-God faith. I have merely posed the argument, that logic as we understand logic, would suggest there is indeed a reason, purpose, and cause for the creation of the universe. I have not once claimed to know or understand what that is, or what kind of entity is responsible, if any. It's just a simple matter of logic, the universe does exist, life does exist, something happened to cause it to exist, reality is the basis for this. If we apply the same principles of logic as we apply to everything else, we must conclude there is a reason. I've not proclaimed that reason, I've not articulated one sentence about what the reason is, only that logic dictates there has to be a reason, else we wouldn't exist.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

You should educate yourself Waterhead... seriously dude, you have some real problems.

Logic IS reason, it is printed in black and white right there in the definition you posted.

Logic is the art and science of reasoning...

The word derives from the Greek λογική (logiké), fem. of λογικός (logikos), "possessed of reason, intellectual, dialectical, argumentative", and from λόγος logos, "word, thought, idea, argument, account, reason, or principle".

Logic is related to reason. Logic is not reason. Logic is a field of philosophy dealing with how to make consistent arguments. Reason refers to mental facilities that generate or affirm propositions.

Now, in vernacular, logic and reason are often used as synonyms, and that's probably what the dictionary you are referencing was talking about (which is one of the reasons I sigh when people use a dictionary as part of an argument in a way the resource was not meant for). However, they are different things to an expert in logic.

really? You didn't type this...
They are completely and totally unrelated. They cannot be applied to one another, because physics and logic are not the same thing.


Gee Waterhead, it's posted right there under your name, is someone hacking your computer? It's what you fucking said you pathetic dipshit liar!

Newton's third law of physics cannot be applied as a law of logic any more than the Pythagorean theorem can. Newton's third law of motion is part of science. Logic is part of philosophy. Philosophy can be used to produce good science.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Ahh yes.... INCLUDING the possibility of a Creator, Intelligent Designer, and God, as well as a REASON AND PURPOSE for the creation of the universe. Those things all remain viable and completely possible, perhaps even, probable. You are the one who has drawn a conclusion and ignored logic to determine there is no God or Creator, and no purpose or reason for the universe.

Just because something is possible doesn't mean we should take the proposition seriously. As I said, everything is possible. It's possible that all the air will swirl into one side of the room you are sitting in and that you'll suffocate. The possibility shouldn't be taken seriously because it's so small. Possibility /= certainty.

 

[Don Quixote]

Sometimes when I read about this wondrous material that makes life my mind turns to the mundane. I watch my grandchildren grow and the joy is wondrous but grounded in a terminal life. Atoms make up all that is and contained in one tiny thing is a complexity that baffles all common sense. And yet here we are arguing over so many trivial things as we age and soon die. In universe time we live less than a nanosecond. But our consciousness tells us we are important and our silly ideas important. Imagine an afterlife in which we continue the trivia of today a hundred years from now, a billion years from now will we still argue - or be bored to death. PI. Personally I know death is the end, Gawd is a interesting idea but she only grew out of our terminal state. Imagine though that death isn't the end, one can only be 99.99% sure when there is no test. What will we do, a rather mundane question. What will we marvel at there, what will bring joy.

life is a sexually transmitted terminal disease

having said that, i profess that gaia of the universes rules and that mankind is but a single member

but, who knows, when we shuffle of this mortal coil we shall find out

so do good and your best for now

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

There are a lot of things in science that defy "logic." Not that you're intelligent enough to understand the explanation, but do some looking into quantum physics and you'll find that particles act in ways that defy logic. Particles will pass through two places at one time, things happen before they began, etc.

I've not stated otherwise. In fact, I even gave you an example of Black Holes. I fully understand that certain things "defy logic" but it never means there is no reason or explanation, it always means we haven't yet discovered it. When we encounter something which seems to defy logic, we often examine and explore it until we find the answers, we don't simply say... oh well, I guess shit just happened like that!

This entire string of argumentation of yours is totally retarded. The fact that the universe had a CAUSE does not mean the universe has a purpose.

But if you don't know the cause, how can you conclude there was no purpose? I never said this was not possible, just that it isn't logical. Everything we know and understand in our world, serves some purpose or has some reason for being. Even things we may think are "defiant of logic" or meaningless, can eventually be found to have a fundamental purpose or reason for existence.

A bowling ball rolling off a table and hitting your foot is CAUSED by gravity. Thats HOW the ball rolled onto your foot. Why did the ball roll onto your foot? THERES NO REASON WHY. There wasn't a purpose behind it. Things can happen in the physical universe due purely to chance and having no logical reason whatsoever.

Nothing ever just happens by chance without something causing it to happen. See Newton's 3rd Law! There is an answer to WHY the ball rolled on your foot, you just don't want to explore why. Someone walked by and bumped the ball, setting it into motion.... a gust of wind swept by.... your best friend nudged it with his elbow while you were scoping out the chicks! Perhaps the "purpose" was, you were being a dickhead?

Yes, the bowling ball falling to your foot is because of gravity, so we utilize the tool of logic... reason... and we determine the ball must have fallen due to gravity, onto your foot. Now... Did the ball materialize from the elements in the air? Again, we apply logic... nope, it's not likely that is where the ball came from... We observe a table.... it doesn't have to be there, but it is. Now, if we apply logic... we can say that logic indicates this is where the ball probably began its journey to your foot. BUT... at no point in our "logical evaluations" will we ever conclude that the ball just happened to randomly appear on our foot for no reason. This defies logic.

If we logically evaluate the evidence before us, which is the whole entire universe itself, in all it's splendor... it simply defies logic that it exists for no reason and just randomly appeared. I know this is what your faith teaches you to believe with all your heart and soul, but really man.... it's illogical.

Let me interject a bit of devils advocacy here, I don't claim to know the answer to why, I am not claiming the reason for the universe is a God or being, I simply don't know. This is purely a philosophical point, if we apply the principles of logic as we apply them in every other instance, the universe can't likely exist without meaning and reason. It's illogical.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Logic is a field of philosophy

Nope, it is also mathematics principle. It is the set of rules we utilize to reason and rationalize, and it includes science, math, and philosophy. Now stop being an anal retentive dipwad, and apologize to me for lying biach!

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Nope, it is also mathematics principle. It is the set of rules we utilize to reason and rationalize, and it includes science, math, and philosophy. Now stop being an anal retentive dipwad, and apologize to me for lying biach!

Logic is a branch of philosophy. Science, math, and philosophy are not branches of logic.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

That's it. This is my last post on this thread. Dixie can literally drag an argument on forever, and I'm not wasting any more time on this bullshit.

 

[ib1yysguy]

I've not stated otherwise. In fact, I even gave you an example of Black Holes. I fully understand that certain things "defy logic" but it never means there is no reason or explanation, it always means we haven't yet discovered it. When we encounter something which seems to defy logic, we often examine and explore it until we find the answers, we don't simply say... oh well, I guess shit just happened like that!



But if you don't know the cause, how can you conclude there was no purpose? I never said this was not possible, just that it isn't logical. Everything we know and understand in our world, serves some purpose or has some reason for being. Even things we may think are "defiant of logic" or meaningless, can eventually be found to have a fundamental purpose or reason for existence.




Nothing ever just happens by chance without something causing it to happen. See Newton's 3rd Law! There is an answer to WHY the ball rolled on your foot, you just don't want to explore why. Someone walked by and bumped the ball, setting it into motion.... a gust of wind swept by.... your best friend nudged it with his elbow while you were scoping out the chicks! Perhaps the "purpose" was, you were being a dickhead?

Yes, the bowling ball falling to your foot is because of gravity, so we utilize the tool of logic... reason... and we determine the ball must have fallen due to gravity, onto your foot. Now... Did the ball materialize from the elements in the air? Again, we apply logic... nope, it's not likely that is where the ball came from... We observe a table.... it doesn't have to be there, but it is. Now, if we apply logic... we can say that logic indicates this is where the ball probably began its journey to your foot. BUT... at no point in our "logical evaluations" will we ever conclude that the ball just happened to randomly appear on our foot for no reason. This defies logic.

If we logically evaluate the evidence before us, which is the whole entire universe itself, in all it's splendor... it simply defies logic that it exists for no reason and just randomly appeared. I know this is what your faith teaches you to believe with all your heart and soul, but really man.... it's illogical.

Let me interject a bit of devils advocacy here, I don't claim to know the answer to why, I am not claiming the reason for the universe is a God or being, I simply don't know. This is purely a philosophical point, if we apply the principles of logic as we apply them in every other instance, the universe can't likely exist without meaning and reason. It's illogical.

So fucking stupid. Someone walking by and bumping the ball isn't a reason WHY, it's the HOW.

You yourself drew the distinction between these two words when you said Hawking can explain HOW the universe came into being but not WHY. Now you are attempting to muddy the language and conflate the two.

There isn't a WHY unless the person threw the ball onto your foot. That gives it a reason and purpose. The ball falling by happenstance doesn't need a reason or purpose to hit your toe. Logic doesn't make the striking of your toe by accident improbable or illogical either.

You don't even know what point you're trying to make. At this point you're resorting to the tactic of trying to confuse words together to spin away from something you said. You clearly said how and why were two different answers. Now you are trying to say they are one in the same.

That means you know you've fucked up.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Just because something is possible doesn't mean we should take the proposition seriously. As I said, everything is possible. It's possible that all the air will swirl into one side of the room you are sitting in and that you'll suffocate. The possibility shouldn't be taken seriously because it's so small. Possibility /= certainty.

Right, and the possibility the Big Bang (if it happened) was a random event with no meaning or reason, and it created a universe where life is abundant because of an intricate array of elements of matter coming together on a planet to generate a complete eco-system and environment conducive to these elements of matter producing life, which generates more life and eventually intelligence and civilization, nature, art, philosophy, science and physics, humanity, etc. etc. etc.... is virtually NIL!

To be such a pathetic loony tune as to think, this magnificent universe is without reason or meaning, is really sad to me. I honestly feel sorry for you guys! You've helped me to understand the mind of suicidal people better. I have always had trouble understanding how someone could contemplate killing themselves, but I think I understand... If you have convinced yourself of this sort of absurdity and illogical stupidity, and you honestly think this universe has no meaning and we have no purpose or meaning, I can see how you might go there.

I have often said, I don't have a "belief in God" at all, I have a knowledge and understanding of a spiritual energy, I am in touch with it daily. It doesn't require me to "have faith" in it, I know it exists. So, I am at a distinct advantage over those of you who remain in the dark, because I know the truth. But I do enjoy revealing the stupidity of "Atheist" believers.