The Language of God

Onceler said:
All you're doing is trading the Big Bang w/ God.

You can say that for something like the Big Bang to happen, there HAD to be something to instigate it. It makes no logical sense for there not to be.

By inserting God, you've assiged that to an omniscient, all-powerful being, whose existence is the same as the Big Bang. How did that entity come into being? The Big Bang needs something, but God always just WAS and is?
Click to expand...

Again, I have not mentioned God. This is what you continue assuming, because I think a lot of humans comprehend this as the answer, but I remain completely open-minded about that. My only assertion is, there has to be a reason why, it defies logic for there not to be one. Everything that happens, has a reason, something that caused it to happen, to deny this, is to deny reality. The same must be true with the creation of the universe, something had to happen to make that happen. There has to be a reason for the universe to exist, it would defy logic otherwise.

Now, with that said, I am making no claim to know and understand the answer, I have already stated that earlier in the thread. But there seems to be two mindsets at play here... One says, no explanation, it just happened for no apparent reason through random chance.. the other says, there must be an explanation and reason, because that is logical. Of course, the illogical view is the one which has to be adopted if you are to denounce the existence of a God.
 
" Of course, the illogical view is the one which has to be adopted if you are to denounce the existence of a God."

There's the rub. Acknowledging the existence of God, without cause, is just as illogical.
 
A summary of this thread:

Dixie: The universe has purpose.
ib1: The universe doesn't have to have purpose.
Dixie: Logic says the universe has to have purpose.
ib1: No it doesn't.
Dixie: If you apply logic it does.
ib1: No it doesn't.
Dixie: Logic says it does because logic says it does.
ib1: Logic suggests no such thing.
Dixie: uh huh! Cause I say so.
 
It would help if you actually had some level of understanding of what "logic" means and what it is. Apparently, you have no clue. You want to keep maintaining that the universe doesn't have to have meaning, but that would be illogical... you are right, it doesn't HAVE to have meaning, it can be entirely illogical. It is possible, logic is used and applied in every instance of our universe except for the question of why it exists, and in that instance, logic doesn't have to apply. I just don't think that to be likely.
 
Again, all you do is keep reiterating your retarded point. Logic doesn't suggest the universe needs to have a purpose. Dixie suggests that the universe needs to have purpose because Dixie's a coward who doesn't want to confront the possibility that the universe is purposeless.
 
Dixie said:
Nope. Stephen Hawking has no idea WHY the universe came to be. He can speculate on HOW it happened, what took place, etc., but he can't tell you WHY it happened. Math can help you measure what has happened since the Big Bang, but it is meaningless at proving what happened BEFORE the Big Bang, because we don't even know if mathematics applies. Remember, we are talking about the time BEFORE the universe, so the laws and physics of the universe may not yet exist, since there is no universe.

But Logic dictates something DID happen, we DO have a universe. And if we apply logic as we've observed it on this earth, applied to any number of things, we understand, if something happens, there is a reason. We may not understand the reason, we may not be able to answer WHY, but we know through logic, there must be a reason for every happening, it is that way with everything else we understand in our universe.
Click to expand...

If you mean to say that the fact that the universe exists by some fundamental rule of logic proves that a sentient being had to have a reason for making it, and therefore made it... no, that's not true. Could you tell me the precise rule of logic you're referencing?
 
Dixie said:
If a bowling ball falls on your foot... IS there a logical possibility the bowling ball just randomly picked the destination of your foot and landed there? Could you successfully argue that the bowling ball landed on your foot for no particular reason? Or would it be more logical to assume something caused the bowling ball to land on your foot, someone perhaps dropped it, maybe you dropped it, but some reason exists for WHY the bowling ball is on your foot? It is ILLOGICAL to believe there is no reason for the bowling ball landing on your foot, and that it just happened.
Click to expand...

The existence of the universe is not a bowling ball falling on your foot.

Dixie said:
This is what you are trying to apply to the existence of the universe. You are trying to claim the Big Bang or whatever created the universe, did so without any reason whatsoever.
Click to expand...

I don't know that it exists without any reason whatsoever. I don't know what the universe emerged from. But if there was a reason, there's nothing to tell us what it is or why there was one. Nothing to point us in that direction. If there were one, religious folks wouldn't know it. Religion is a delusion.
 
Dixie said:
Again, I have not mentioned God. This is what you continue assuming, because I think a lot of humans comprehend this as the answer, but I remain completely open-minded about that.
Click to expand...

Yeah.

Dixie said:
My only assertion is, there has to be a reason why, it defies logic for there not to be one.
Click to expand...

Why? If it violates some rule of logic, you've made absolutely no attempt to explain how. You've just stated that it does. That is not a logical argument. You can't say "you're violating the laws of logic because you're violating the laws of logic!" This is circular reasoning.


Dixie said:
Everything that happens, has a reason, something that caused it to happen, to deny this, is to deny reality.
Click to expand...

Why?


Dixie said:
The same must be true with the creation of the universe,
Click to expand...

Why?

Dixie said:
something had to happen to make that happen.
Click to expand...

Why?

Dixie said:
There has to be a reason for the universe to exist, it would defy logic otherwise.
Click to expand...

Why?


Dixie said:
Now, with that said, I am making no claim to know and understand the answer, I have already stated that earlier in the thread. But there seems to be two mindsets at play here... One says, no explanation, it just happened for no apparent reason through random chance..
Click to expand...

For no reason that we know of out of conditions that are not known. It may not have been random chance. You are ascribing views to the scientific view of the universe that aren't necessarily truths. You are defeating a straw man.

Dixie said:
he other says, there must be an explanation and reason, because that is logical.
Click to expand...

Why?

Dixie said:
Of course, the illogical view is the one which has to be adopted if you are to denounce the existence of a God.
Click to expand...

You are merely assigning the adjectives "illogical" and "logical" to statements without giving justification. This is a logical fallacy called "non-sequitor".
 
ib1yysguy said:
A summary of this thread:

Dixie: The universe has purpose.
ib1: The universe doesn't have to have purpose.
Dixie: Logic says the universe has to have purpose.
ib1: No it doesn't.
Dixie: If you apply logic it does.
ib1: No it doesn't.
Dixie: Logic says it does because logic says it does.
ib1: Logic suggests no such thing.
Dixie: uh huh! Cause I say so.
Click to expand...

It's circular reasoning based on a non-sequitor. Dixie is ironically using a logical fallacy (piled on top of another logical fallacy) and calling it logic.
 
Waterhead, I can sit here and tell you water is wet, but if you don't know what water is, or don't comprehend wetness, how am I supposed to prove that to you? What "evidence" can I submit, if you are incapable of understanding the basic fundamentals? Did the Big Bang happen? Isn't it logical that something caused it to happen? Isn't it completely illogical to conclude nothing caused the Big Bang?

LOGIC: Principles of reasoning which can be applied to any branch of knowledge or study.

When we apply LOGIC to the question of why the universe came to be, it can only point in one direction. That is not a subjective opinion, that is just how it is. Every phenomenon we observe as humans, has some explanation, nothing happens without cause or reason. Logic dictates there is a reason for why the universe came to be, because logic dictates for every action there is a reaction. I don't know how to break that down into any simpler terms for you, but the bowling ball analogy was a good one. No, the universe is not a bowling ball, but logic is still logic, and how it applies in the bowling ball analogy, is precisely how it applies with the universe.
 
....and here is some more LOGIC for you to digest...

Logic says, if you do not ask the question of why the universe came to be, you will never find the answer, it is impossible. So, rather than spending all of your time, stupidly trying to turn "logic" into "dixies opinion" instead, so you can bash and trash it, just stop and consider what I have said. I didn't write the rules, I don't determine what logic dictates, I'm just pointing it out to you.
 
Yeah, I think I've pretty much proven my point to everyone above child level intelligence on this site, so I'm done with wack-a-mole for today.
 
Dixie said:
Logic dictates there is a reason for why the universe came to be, because logic dictates for every action there is a reaction.
Click to expand...

OK, this is too much even for me. This doesn't even make sense. Is this honestly you're defense? WTF DOES NEWTON'S THIRD LAW OF MOTION HAVE TO DO WITH THE CREATION OF THE UNIVERSE?!

LOGIC does NOT dictate that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction! NEWTON'S THIRD LAW OF MOTION DOES! WHEN TALKING ABOUT MOTION! THERE IS A FUCKING DIFFERENCE! YOU ARE JUST MIXING VARIOUS CONCEPTS THAT SOUND GOOD TO YOU WITHOUT ANY RHYME OR REASON! AND EVEN IF THIS WERE A LOGICAL RULE, AND NOT SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE COMPLETELY UNRELATED SUBJECT OF PHYSICS, HOW WOULD THAT PROVE THAT THE UNIVERSE HAS A CREATOR!?!/!!!!!1111lim sin x as x -> pi

Good fucking god you're an idiot!
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top