The HORRIFIC results of deregulation.

cawacko said:
Grep Ip is an excellent financial reporter who wrote a book called Foolproof: Why Safety Can Be Dangerous And How Danger Makes Us Safe

Here's the blurb on the book from Amazon:

How the very things we create to protect ourselves, like money market funds or anti-lock brakes, end up being the biggest threats to our safety and wellbeing.

We have learned a staggering amount about human nature and disaster -- yet we keep having car crashes, floods, and financial crises. Partly this is because the success we have at making life safer enables us to take bigger risks. As our cities, transport systems, and financial markets become more interconnected and complex, so does the potential for catastrophe.

How do we stay safe? Should we? What if our attempts are exposing us even more to the very risks we are avoiding? Would acceptance of danger make us more secure? Is there such a thing as foolproof?

In FOOLPROOF, Greg Ip presents a macro theory of human nature and disaster that explains how we can keep ourselves safe in our increasingly dangerous world.


https://www.amazon.com/Foolproof-Safety-Dangerous-Danger-Makes/dp/0316286044



Zappa and Buckley have made the argument before that essentially is we can regulate ourselves to total safety. This book gives examples of how and when that works to our detriment. So with no specific evidence Zappa is trying to make an overarching strawman based on this tragic event in Ohio.
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W/respect to anti lock brakes, I don't think they're dangerous because people take bigger risks. They're dangerous because they don't stop a vehicle in last minute braking situations.

They should have an on/off option.
 
ZappasGuitar said:
Those pesky regulations!

Always interfering with a business owner's attempts to make a buck...


Thank GOD for Trump!

He's for rolling back those regulations and giving business owners a chance to make more money.
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It's a shame YOU weren't the one on it.
 
ZappasGuitar said:
And WHY is the Dept of Agriculture in charge of inspecting rides?

Their mission statement: The mission of the Ohio Department of Agriculture is to protect Ohio citizens by ensuring the safety of the state's food supply, to maintain the health of Ohio's animals and plant life, and to create economic opportunities for Ohio's farmers, food processors and agribusinesses.
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You'd be surprised at what state DoAs are responsible for. In Florida, they calibrate the gas pumps, among other things. As long as engineers are part of the process, I guess it's okay
 
ZappasGuitar said:
The companies who own these traveling "fairs" are always lobbying the legislatures of the states they do business in, to relax the regulations in order to make it easier for them to get booked.

I have a friend who works for a company that owns properties in over a dozen states. These properties are very similar to chucky cheese, with games, rides, go-kart track, etc.

His job is to mediate all cases of individuals injured on company property, but he also is frequently called to testify on the specific safety regulations in place to assure customer safety, to prove the company is doing all it can.

Every time talk turns to work, he will tell me about another instance of a ride operator trying to relax the regulations. Although a number of states have commissions dealing with ride safety, lobbyists are frequently appearing before state legislatures, lobbying to have the panel/commission/board dissolved and allow the ride operators to do their own inspections.

The above ride was inspected by someone from the Dept. of Agriculture...
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Well thank you for that wonderful story about your "friend". As riveting as it was, it still doesn't explain what specific regulation was relaxed in this specific instance that led to this specific tragedy.
 
ZappasGuitar said:
And WHY is the Dept of Agriculture in charge of inspecting rides?

Their mission statement: The mission of the Ohio Department of Agriculture is to protect Ohio citizens by ensuring the safety of the state's food supply, to maintain the health of Ohio's animals and plant life, and to create economic opportunities for Ohio's farmers, food processors and agribusinesses.
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Well obviously Trump made it so after consulting with the Russians. Fucking duh
 
callinectes said:
You'd be surprised at what state DoAs are responsible for. In Florida, they calibrate the gas pumps, among other things. As long as engineers are part of the process, I guess it's okay
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You think the state hires engineers to inspect gas pumps?

:chuckle:
 
leaningright said:
And is there any evidence that it was Trump's fault? Some sort of bill he signed. Was this the result of "deregulation" at all?
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You and I must have read different OPs. What I read Zappa saying is that the guy you voted for, the guy you always leap to defend, lecherous President Pussy Grabber, has stated, it is on public record, that he wants to roll back all manner of regulations for consumer protection, environmental protection, and to undo regulations for the big Wall Street Banks. I did not see him blame Trump for this amusement ride.

Zappa: Thank GOD for Trump!

He's for rolling back those regulations and giving business owners a chance to make more money.
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Truth Detector said:
It is funny when people take the lunatic and bizarre rants erupting from ZappasTard seriously; as if he cared about the truth or facts. :rofl2:
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I take Zap seriously. Sometimes he can be a bit snarky but who can blame him. He lives in Texas. ;). In fact, after re-reading he didn't say anything about Trump being involved in this other than the fact that Trump was for deregulation, which is a true statement. So I'll rephrase my questions...

Is there any evidence that Trumps policies would lead to this sad incident? Is there any evidence that this was the fault of deregulation?

It looks like human error or neglect to me, which you're always going to have as a possibility no matter the regulations. I ride amusement park rides (very few fair rides) a lot. My family loves them. I am aware that accidents are always possible with human made mechanical devices. It appears it was inspected that morning. On the short, somebody messed up.
 
leaningright said:
I take Zap seriously. Sometimes he can be a bit snarky but who can blame him. He lives in Texas. ;). In fact, after re-reading he didn't say anything about Trump being involved in this other than the fact that Trump was for deregulation, which is a true statement. So I'll rephrase my questions...

Is there any evidence that Trumps policies would lead to this sad incident? Is there any evidence that this was the fault of deregulation?

It looks like human error or neglect to me, which you're always going to have as a possibility no matter the regulations. I ride amusement park rides (very few fair rides) a lot. My family loves them. I am aware that accidents are always possible with human made mechanical devices. It appears it was inspected that morning. On the short, somebody messed up.
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Once again his premise is a straw man and a fail. Like you said the ride was inspected that morning. In his world our car would be inspected before every time you drove etc.

In his and Cypress' mind the gov't can almost never do too much. More regulations almost always good. It's why I posted the link to that book which shows that to be false but for these guys it's a mindset and ideological thing
 
cawacko said:
Once again his premise is a straw man and a fail. Like you said the ride was inspected that morning. In his world our car would be inspected before every time you drove etc.

In his and Cypress' mind the gov't can almost never do too much. More regulations almost always good. It's why I posted the link to that book which shows that to be false but for these guys it's a mindset and ideological thing
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Wrong on all counts. Regulation is a tool that is supposed to be used in the public interest. The question is always, what the right level of regulation and oversight it. That is an honest debate.

My question to you, is why should I trust the far right wing to know what the appropriate level of regulation is? It is a political ideology that, at it's core, believes in unfettered capitalism, and has never, ever, proposed or advocated for regulation.....Even as the under-regulated Robber Barons of Wall Street crashed the world economy in 2008.

Do you think we need to deregulate Wall Street, and that we need less environmental and consumer regulation?
 
Cypress said:
Wrong on all counts. Regulation is a tool that is supposed to be used in the public interest. The question is always, what the right level of regulation and oversight it. That is an honest debate.

My question to you, is why should I trust the far right wing to know what the appropriate level of regulation is? It is a political ideology that, at it's core, believes in unfettered capitalism, and has never, ever, proposed or advocated for regulation.....Even as the under-regulated Robber Barons of Wall Street crashed the world economy in 2008.

Do you think we need to deregulate Wall Street, and that we need less environmental and consumer regulation?
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Every thing is on a case by case basis. But yes we can over regulate our economy, over regulate our environment and over regulate our safety.

Why our economy crashed like it did is a different subject but it goes back to our govt housing policy and the Fed as the impetus. And we can go back two decades to watch the Fed and govt bail out wall st so of course wall st was willing to act like it did knowing the moral hazard was gone.
 
Cypress said:
Wrong on all counts. Regulation is a tool that is supposed to be used in the public interest. The question is always, what the right level of regulation and oversight it. That is an honest debate.

My question to you, is why should I trust the far right wing to know what the appropriate level of regulation is? It is a political ideology that, at it's core, believes in unfettered capitalism, and has never, ever, proposed or advocated for regulation.....Even as the under-regulated Robber Barons of Wall Street crashed the world economy in 2008.

Do you think we need to deregulate Wall Street, and that we need less environmental and consumer regulation?
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What exactly is this "unfettered" capitalism you speak of?

Yes, we need to deregulate wall st, EPA needs to be shut down, and consumers can regulate.


Now before you shit your pants, go research why Canada was able to avoid the financial crisis led by housing.

The reason for the financial crisis wasn't deregulation. It was moral hazard injected into the system by the federal government.
 
ZappasTARD said:
And WHY is the Dept of Agriculture in charge of inspecting rides?

Their mission statement: The mission of the Ohio Department of Agriculture is to protect Ohio citizens by ensuring the safety of the state's food supply, to maintain the health of Ohio's animals and plant life, and to create economic opportunities for Ohio's farmers, food processors and agribusinesses.
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It's a FAIR dolt. God you're an idiot.
 
Cypress said:
You and I must have read different OPs. What I read Zappa saying is that the guy you voted for, the guy you always leap to defend, lecherous President Pussy Grabber, has stated, it is on public record, that he wants to roll back all manner of regulations for consumer protection, environmental protection, and to undo regulations for the big Wall Street Banks. I did not see him blame Trump for this amusement ride.
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Dear moron; his emotional rant had NOTHING to do with the FACTS. Dunce.
 
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