Taliban behead 17 at Afghan party 'with music and dancing'

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I have some essays written by a Muslim woman professor and feminist about why the west cannot "Free" muslim women and how we attempt to shove our own western feminism onto them. I use the term Western Feminism in its most pedestrian way. Not my feminism, but broadly accepted feminism. But their feminism is very different than ours. They mostly want no part of it. I would suggest reading Muslim woman feminists, it's fascinating stuff, regardless of where you come down.

I have gone to hear women from RAWA speak. They are anti-fundamentalist. They fight for women's freedom in Afghanistan. I have listened to them state that they can take care of their own problems. This doesn't strike me as true. I think this is a very complicated situation. I know one thing; when Tariq Ali says that no one ever went to war to free women he ain't whistling Dixie! So we are not there to free women and to claim otherwise is the claim of a buffoon. I especially dislike finding men I know to be sexist exploiting the problems women face in the world for their own imperialist ends.

There is also the fact that we cannot free them. They do have to free themselves. Many will have to die. That's what revolutions are. And this sort of thing can only be ended by a revolution not by an invasion. It's just not possible for us to free the women there. We have not done so yet. We never will. If we could, who knows where I might fall on the topic. But I know we cannot. Muslim women feminists do have many suggestions about things they feel that we in the western world, especially western feminists, can do to support them. But we can't free them. And they don't want our guns and bombs murdering their children anymore. It really comes down to that.

What a load of fucking rubbish, I see that you are still espousing the French paedophile Sartre's concept of necessary violence. Pol Pot used that to great effect in killing 2 million Cambodian people whilst the West just stood idly by. I went to the Yuol Sleng museum last year and saw for myself what happened when a crazy political philosophy is enacted by a fucking madman.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

I have some essays written by a Muslim woman professor and feminist about why the west cannot "Free" muslim women and how we attempt to shove our own western feminism onto them. I use the term Western Feminism in its most pedestrian way. Not my feminism, but broadly accepted feminism.

Good that you finally realized that your idea of feminism is not broadly accepted.

 

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For many on the left in the US, protection for women stops at our borders.

That is exactly true, it is quite shameful really that the US left is so insular and woolly minded. I can't help thinking that there is something of the noble savage concept as exemplified by Rousseau in their approach. It was much the same in the late '70s when so many on the Left were calling for the Shah's head, they were so determined in thinking that anything was better that they turned a blind eye to Khomeini, even though it was obvious that he wanted to impose a theocracy.

Bush could have done something right if he had concentrated on Afghanistan and not instead seeked to avenge his dad in Iraq.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

What a load of fucking rubbish, I see that you are still espousing the French paedophile Sartre's concept of necessary violence. Pol Pot used that to great effect in killing 2 million Cambodian people whilst the West just stood idly by. I went to the Yuol Sleng museum last year and saw for myself what happened when a crazy political philosophy is enacted by a fucking madman.

Darla is big on protecting womens right to kill, not womens rights to not be killed.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

That is exactly true, it is quite shameful really that the US left is so insular and woolly minded. I can't help thinking that there is something of the noble savage concept as exemplified by Rousseau in their approach. It was much the same in the late '70s when so many on the Left were calling for the Shah's head, they were so determined in thinking that anything was better that they turned a blind eye to Khomeini, even though it was obvious that he wanted to impose a theocracy.

Rwanda, the Sudan, the Congo... the list goes on and on and on... we turn a blind eye. We interfered in Bosnia/Serbia, but not in Africa... I wonder why.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

I am just pointing out what will happen but apparently you are happy enough about that, the West created the Taliban in the first place so it is beholden on the West to rid Afghanistan of them.

The really unfortunate part of this is how it completely betrays the trust of the Afghan (or any) people. We go in and tell these people "We're here to stand with you in rejecting the radicals!" We spend months or maybe years, winning people over, convincing them to not be afraid, to embrace freedom! Assuring them that we have their backs...we'll stand beside them no matter what.... then we leave! We've done this same thing, over and over again. These poor people put their faith and trust in us, and we abandon them the first chance we get. And we wonder why the hell most of them hate our guts? Each time, a few more (who aren't executed) will say, "Never again will I trust these sons of bitches!!" A few more adopt radicalism and abandon the idea of freedom and democracy, and become our enemy. Oh yeah... we're changing hearts and minds alright!

 

[cancel2 2022]

Rwanda, the Sudan, the Congo... the list goes on and on and on... we turn a blind eye. We interfered in Bosnia/Serbia, but not in Africa... I wonder why.

Ruanda, the supreme example of political correctness in action, the West was so terrified of being thought of as being racist and latter day imperialists that they were totally paralysed into doing sweet fuck all.

 

[blackascoal]

I am just pointing out what will happen but apparently you are happy enough about that, the West created the Taliban in the first place so it is beholden on the West to rid Afghanistan of them.

Afghan Activists Want US Out, No Deal with Taliban

Sonali Kolhatkar is a founding Director of the US-based solidarity organization, Afghan Women’s Mission, which raises funds for social and political women-led projects in Afghanistan. She is co-author of the book, "Bleeding Afghanistan: Washington, Warlords, and the Propaganda of Silence". She is also the host and Executive Producer of Uprising, heard on KPFK Pacifica Radio.

excerpt --

KOLHATKAR: Well, I am very much in touch with, and on a, you know, close basis, with the members of the organization RAWA, the Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan, which is the oldest women-led organization, women's organization in Afghanistan. And right from the start they were very clear, even before the 9/11 attacks, even before the U.S. war began in 2001, that they were against the Taliban, they were against the U.S.-backed fundamentalists who are now part of government. And they certainly didn't want a foreign occupation on their soil, however, to address these issues of fundamentalism through a war. And so that has not changed over the years.

And what Afghans, ordinary Afghans have been subjected to over the past ten years has been they get targeted from three different sides. You have the U.S. and NATO occupation on the one hand, which is conducting these night raids and killing civilians, the likes of which we just saw. And then you have the Taliban, who are only stronger because of the U.S. presence, because they have a great excuse to remain in Afghanistan. And then you have the U.S.-backed central government in Afghanistan, which is riddled with very corrupt and criminal warlords.

And what is happening is all of these three groups that are in power are negotiating among themselves for who gets power as the U.S. leaves. And Afghans that I talk to do not want the Taliban or the U.S.-backed Northern Alliance in power. With the U.S. troops withdrawn, it's one out of three forces that they have to—three forces fewer that they have to contend with. But that doesn't mean they want the Taliban or the Northern Alliance. What they want is peace. And you don't get peace by putting criminals who have weapons into power.
http://www.rawa.org/temp/runews/rawanews.php?id=2724#ixzz24lePsHUW

It does not go unnoticed that you still refuse to answer the question of who gets to do the dying for something that YOU want Americans to die for, not the Afghani women you claim to want protected.

No one wants us to remain in Afghanistan but people like you brother.

 

[cancel2 2022]

The really unfortunate part of this is how it completely betrays the trust of the Afghan (or any) people. We go in and tell these people "We're here to stand with you in rejecting the radicals!" We spend months or maybe years, winning people over, convincing them to not be afraid, to embrace freedom! Assuring them that we have their backs...we'll stand beside them no matter what.... then we leave! We've done this same thing, over and over again. These poor people put their faith and trust in us, and we abandon them the first chance we get. And we wonder why the hell most of them hate our guts? Each time, a few more (who aren't executed) will say, "Never again will I trust these sons of bitches!!" A few more adopt radicalism and abandon the idea of freedom and democracy, and become our enemy. Oh yeah... we're changing hearts and minds alright!

Dixie, you know that you and I rarely agree but I endorse 100% what you say here. We caused the fucking problem in the first place by arming the Mujahadeen because they were the West's enemies enemy. We caused the heroin problem and the Taliban to happen, it is supremely ironic that the Left were the ones that travelled the hippy trail to Nepal through Afghanistan and created the market for heroin in the first place.

 

[blackascoal]

Darla is big on protecting womens right to kill, not womens rights to not be killed.

But you are?

Women should look to you for their best interests?

 

[cancel2 2022]

Darla is big on protecting womens right to kill, not womens rights to not be killed.

I became disillusioned with the Left in the late '70s when Cambodia and Iran were allowed to fall to the enemies of civilisation. You would think that those two alone would give them food for thought and be somewhat chastened but I've learnt since then that they never change.

 

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Afghan Activists Want US Out, No Deal with Taliban

Sonali Kolhatkar is a founding Director of the US-based solidarity organization, Afghan Women’s Mission, which raises funds for social and political women-led projects in Afghanistan. She is co-author of the book, "Bleeding Afghanistan: Washington, Warlords, and the Propaganda of Silence". She is also the host and Executive Producer of Uprising, heard on KPFK Pacifica Radio.

excerpt --

KOLHATKAR: Well, I am very much in touch with, and on a, you know, close basis, with the members of the organization RAWA, the Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan, which is the oldest women-led organization, women's organization in Afghanistan. And right from the start they were very clear, even before the 9/11 attacks, even before the U.S. war began in 2001, that they were against the Taliban, they were against the U.S.-backed fundamentalists who are now part of government. And they certainly didn't want a foreign occupation on their soil, however, to address these issues of fundamentalism through a war. And so that has not changed over the years.

And what Afghans, ordinary Afghans have been subjected to over the past ten years has been they get targeted from three different sides. You have the U.S. and NATO occupation on the one hand, which is conducting these night raids and killing civilians, the likes of which we just saw. And then you have the Taliban, who are only stronger because of the U.S. presence, because they have a great excuse to remain in Afghanistan. And then you have the U.S.-backed central government in Afghanistan, which is riddled with very corrupt and criminal warlords.

And what is happening is all of these three groups that are in power are negotiating among themselves for who gets power as the U.S. leaves. And Afghans that I talk to do not want the Taliban or the U.S.-backed Northern Alliance in power. With the U.S. troops withdrawn, it's one out of three forces that they have to—three forces fewer that they have to contend with. But that doesn't mean they want the Taliban or the Northern Alliance. What they want is peace. And you don't get peace by putting criminals who have weapons into power.
http://www.rawa.org/temp/runews/rawanews.php?id=2724#ixzz24lePsHUW

It does not go unnoticed that you still refuse to answer the question of who gets to do the dying for something that YOU want Americans to die for, not the Afghani women you claim to want protected.

No one wants us to remain in Afghanistan but people like you brother.

Is it the same RAWA that published this photo and video?

 

[blackascoal]

Is it the same RAWA that published this photo and video?

[imghttp://www.rawa.org/zarmina1.jpg[/img]

RAWA is the oldest political/social organization of Afghan women struggling for peace, freedom, democracy and women's rights in fundamentalism-blighted Afghanistan since 1977.

Yeah, them.

Yet you have nothing to say about what they want. The most widely respected women's group in Afghanistan .. you have nothing to say.

I never took you for a right-winger.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Dixie, you know that you and I rarely agree but I endorse 100% what you say here. We caused the fucking problem in the first place by arming the Mujahadeen because they were the West's enemies enemy. We caused the heroin problem and the Taliban to happen, it is supremely ironic that the Left were the ones that travelled the hippy trail to Nepal through Afghanistan and created the market for heroin in the first place.

Well, I won't go so far as to blame us for causing all the problems, although we do share some responsibility. The main thing is how our politics shift back and forth, changing with the wind. One party is in power and we have a certain policy or "doctrine" but another party wins power and completely changes it. How can those people ever trust that we'll do what we say, when we change our policy every 4 years?

BAC is breaking his fingers to type post after post on how the people are rejecting our presence there, and it has nothing to do with supporting the Taliban. But can you blame them? They aren't stupid, they've seen this play out time and time again, and they know we aren't serious. They know that we'll abandon them as soon as things get tough, and we're never the ones to suffer the consequences of that. What can be done about this from our perspective? Not much! I guess the best "policy" we could have, is to just let it go, stay out of it, let the radicals and tyrants overrun the world, and eventually at some point, we won't have any other choice but to fight or die. Because, really, until it comes down to that, Americans will remain fickle and wishy-washy. We have no skin in the game, and it doesn't really affect our lives. I can only hope, for future generations sake, that we'll be able to 'do the impossible' yet again, and free the world from tyrannic rule before it destroys us. Last time, we had to invent the A-bomb in order to prevail, what rabbit will we have to pull out of our hat next time? Or can we?

 

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RAWA is the oldest political/social organization of Afghan women struggling for peace, freedom, democracy and women's rights in fundamentalism-blighted Afghanistan since 1977.

Yeah, them.

Yet you have nothing to say about what they want. The most widely respected women's group in Afghanistan .. you have nothing to say.

I never took you for a right-winger.

I am not a right winger, at least by US standards, but I also refuse to get all my ideas passed down to me by politicians with short memories. NATO is in Afghanistan to stop the Taliban regaining control of the country again and to stop Pakistan becoming a theocracy like Iran became many years ago when it was also abandoned by the West. The mere thought of the Taliban gaining power in Pakistan should give even the most ideologically driven person time to pause and think.

 

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RAWA is the oldest political/social organization of Afghan women struggling for peace, freedom, democracy and women's rights in fundamentalism-blighted Afghanistan since 1977.

Yeah, them.

Yet you have nothing to say about what they want. The most widely respected women's group in Afghanistan .. you have nothing to say.

I never took you for a right-winger.

They're not stupid, they know that the West is about to abandon them again and leave them to their fate. They also know that the Taliban can read.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

But you are?

Women should look to you for their best interests?
:

Will I look to protect their right to live and not be abused... absolutely. Will I protect their 'right' to kill?... hell no.

 

[Disillusioned]

I became disillusioned with the Left in the late '70s when Cambodia and Iran were allowed to fall to the enemies of civilisation. You would think that those two alone would give them food for thought and be somewhat chastened but I've learnt since then that they never change.

Actually Iran fell before that, when they had a popular revolution that we tossed under the bus for the Shah and his Saudi style despotism.

 

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Actually Iran fell before that, when they had a popular revolution that we tossed under the bus for the Shah and his Saudi style despotism.

Yes, I know all about 1953 and all that. I also remember how the French gave Khomeini sanctuary in Paris for many years and all the apologists saying that he wasn't that bad really and he didn't mean half the things he said.

 

[blackascoal]

I am not a right winger, at least by US standards, but I also refuse to get all my ideas passed down to me by politicians with short memories. NATO is in Afghanistan to stop the Taliban regaining control of the country again and to stop Pakistan becoming a theocracy like Iran became many years ago when it was also abandoned by the West. The mere thought of the Taliban gaining power in Pakistan should give even the most ideologically driven person time to pause and think.

What in the world makes you think that NATO is in Afghanistan to stop the Taliban?

At what point are you going to decide where the resources are supposed to come from and who is going to do the dying for something that Afghani women DO NOT WANT?