meme
New member
discuss away..
Sotomayor says she's "uniquely American"
- Thread starter Cancel 2018. 3
- Start date
discuss away..
Is her record of being overturned more important than her comments and statements she has made?
Is her being an hispanic woman a plus or a minus in your eyes?
You obviously dislike her as a potential supreme court justice. But are there things about her that you like?
If you could ask her one question, what would it be?
meme
New member
sorry..I meant discuss it someone else..it doesn't matter what I think..I'm in the minority and I just have to take what is dished out..
talk at later.
TuTu Monroe
A Realist
Graham took care of the questions. He was brilliant.
TuTu Monroe
A Realist
Are you saying illegals have rights?
zappasguitar
Well-known member
OMG even when someone tries to be nice to you and engage you in civil discussion, all you come back with is more whining.
It appears that the pity party at meme's place will be going on for a while...
People have rights endowed by their Creator, rights are not endowed by place of birth, but by the fact that you are human. It's in the Declaration, and something I agree with.
Often as we think about the injustice of people sneaking across the border compared to those who come taking the much more difficult legal path we lose sight of things we find important in almost every conversation on this board in any other context. I know that they are here illegally, and that they shouldn't be given a fast-pass especially when considering how hard the people who came legally worked at it, but that doesn't change that they have a first amendment right, all people have that right, not just citizens.
While they don't have a "right" to illegal entry, they do have the right to protest. It may sound contrary, but it is what is.
TuTu Monroe
A Realist
I saw another poll where 47% either didn't care, never heard of her or weren't sure. Sad.
meme
New member
Omg, someone TRIED to be nice to me... and we can always expect you to be cleaning up the rear with your little snide comments..
I'll discuss what I feel like.
carry on little man...
and whine is your middle name..
Technically on a legal basis they do not have a right to protest if they are here illegally. They should be arrested and deported. As to the human element of being created equal there is no dispute. What they have a right to do legally is seek after changing the way their country of origin deals with our country's immigration policy. They can go back to their home of origin and protest their contry's working relationship with ours.
Technically you are wrong. If they are arrested and deported it would not be for protesting, it would be for being here illegally. They have a right to protest. They won't be arrested for protesting.
Excepting that if the proper authority did NOT know they were illegals they could protest, but technically they'd be doing so illegally as they are not here legally.
Again, the protest is not illegal. Simply crossing the border was. They can be arrested for being here illegally, but not for protesting.
The assumption is that you could tell they were illegal by their participation, but you would be incorrect about that as well. Even if you could, and they were arrested, they would not be arrested for protesting, they would be arrested for the law they broke. Crossing the border without permission, overstaying a visa, etc.
There is no law against protesting, even if you are here illegally.
If they were arrested they would not be charged with "protesting", they'd be charged with being here illegally.
True, there is no law against peaceful protest for our citizens. Likewise, there are no rights granted to the illegal to participate in political protest. The reason: because it is assumed an illegal has no political rights; he cannot even vote. The reason I used the word "technically".
The reason I used the word "technically" is because technically you are wrong. Technically there is no law against protesting even if they are here illegally, this is because even they have a first amendment right. The illegal who is protesting may be arrested (unlikely) for being here illegally and may be caught because they protested, but they would not be arrested for any other crime. There is no law against the protest, even if you are here illegally.
If they were found in any other area at any other time, protesting or not, the crime would be the same as well as the punishment.
The protest was not illegal, nor are they doing anything illegal by protesting that they otherwise wouldn't be already doing illegally. Other things they can do: Make and sign petitions. No law against it, in fact they are guaranteed that right in our constitution. Now if they deliver it by hand they may be caught and arrested for being here illegally, but they would not be arrested for petitioning the government.
You used the term "technically" first to TuTu. I used it next because there is no precedent granting an illegal immigrant the first amendment right to protest. The reason is an assumption that they have no need, because they have no rights apart from those that grant them equal protection under the law for due process. If you know of case law that I am unaware of please direct me.
There doesn't need to be precedent. No illegal has been arrested for protesting, because the Congress can make no laws against it. It's in the constitution.
Rights are not granted by your immigration status, rights just are. Even prisoners can petition the government. It's like saying that they can't practice their religion, that they have no right to it because they might get arrested for being here illegally while entering or leaving the church. They have the right to their religion, they have the right to free speech, they have the right to due process even. Rights are not in any way limited by your immigration status.
Now they may fear practicing that right because they can be arrested for being here illegally while doing so, but they will not be punished more or arrested for another crime.
Not quite true Damo. Illegals for instance cannot carry guns. The term "technically" again is appropriate because it is assummed by the law that illegal immigrants not having any political right to redress elected officials have no political standing and therefore no protected right to protest. So case law actually becomes neccesary to decide the actuallity of any perceived right to protest by an illegal.
This is because the right to carry arms has not "been incorporated", the SCOTUS has ruled that the states, and localities, can limit that right. While I disagree with that interpretation, it doesn't change that your example is not salient to the issue at hand therefore.
Rights that are incorporated are rights regardless. Even if you are here illegally, just here on vacation, are a prisoner...
If an illegal has an apartment, the cops still need to get a warrant to rush in to search their place, just like a citizen.
True, the right to due proccess was established via precedent. Because no illegal immigrant has been arrested for "protesting" does not neccecitate he has a right to do so. The very fact that he is illegal, has no right to vote and therefore no position to redress elected officials, makes clear that "technically" he does not hold the rights as that of a US citizen to protest. And that was my point.