Some educators who lost jobs over Charlie Kirk comments are now suing

[cawacko]

A school is a government institution. It isn't a business. Government institutions are supposed to follow the Constitution, not public pressure.

You’re right, schools have to follow the Constitution. The way I understand it, teachers as private citizens can share their views on political or social issues. Schools can step in only if what they say causes real problems for the school. The obvious question is whether this comment really did that.

 

[LurchAddams]

Some educators who lost their jobs over comments they made in the wake of conservative activist Charlie Kirk's slaying have filed lawsuits claiming their free speech rights were violated.

The school and university employees who have filed suits are some of the dozens of workers across a slew of fields fired or suspended from their jobs or subject to other consequences for their controversial comments, according to a USA TODAY count of news reports and statements. The count includes at least 50 educators.

At least three are fighting back in court, according to reporting by the USA TODAY Network. They include a teacher in Iowa who compared Kirk to a Nazi; a South Carolina teacher's assistant who posted a Kirk quote and said she disagreed with him but called the death a "tragedy"; and an employee of an Indiana university who said Kirk's death was wrong and condemned some of his beliefs.

Kirk, the 31-year-old co-founder of the conservative youth-focused organization Turning Point USA and a close ally of President Donald Trump, was killed on Sept. 10 while speaking at an event at Utah Valley University in Orem, Utah. Shooting suspect Tyler Robinson has been charged with his murder and accused of firing a single shot with a rifle from a rooftop.

The killing sparked a tense national debate over partisan rhetoric and politically motivated violence, with many conservatives calling for the firing of otherwise non-public figures who celebrated Kirk's death or spoke ill of him in some way.

The three educators – all employed by public school districts and a public university – are protected by the constitutional right to free speech, they argued in separate lawsuits filed in September. A suit filed by former Oskaloosa High School teacher Matthew Kargol in Iowa argued the school district "wielded state power to punish a citizen for expressing his opinion on political issues," reported the Des Moines Register, part of the USA TODAY Network.

"Their actions strike at the heart of the First Amendment and chill the exercise of constitutional rights," Kargol's complaint said.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/educators-lost-jobs-over-charlie-151404158.html

MOURNING THE LOSS OF FREE SPEECH​

View attachment 60949

Love it! I hope the cowards who fired them end up paying bit bucks.

 

[LurchAddams]

Incentive isnt authority. Than you for your admission.

But a charter or mission is, you sorry idiot.

 

[LurchAddams]

Not all speech is covered under the protections of free speech.

These teachers were not fired for Charlie Kirk, they were fired for inappropriate behavior often including inciting hatred, violence, and the overthrow of the U.S. Government.

If these same people were advocating lethal racism, eugenics, supremacy of a Religion, cannibalism, or sex with minors, they would have been similarly fired.

-

Such bullshit.

 

[LurchAddams]

That's a really interesting question. It doesn't call for violence so that should be protected speech. At the same time you get into the office culture and public image perspective of how it's received.

So it's not a legal debate because that's legal speech, rather its about do we want employers deciding if speech outside the workplace can cost someone their job.

Well, if we're going to institute a litmus test for what is hate speech, shouldn't the leader of the free world subscribe to that concept. But no, he publicly calls for persecution of his political enemies, he says, he "hates the other side" and is not interested in bringing the country together.

It's perplexing to me, how people and perhaps you're one of them, I don't recall, claim that "the left is inciting violence and it's the left who are the violent ones" when the person leading the right spews hate-speech constantly.

But Kimmel gets fired for saying something questionable - not a lie or an incitement to violence.

No - there is a huge double-standard being perpetrated by the trump cult.

 

[cawacko]

Well, if we're going to institute a litmus test for what is hate speech, shouldn't the leader of the free world subscribe to that concept. But no, he publicly calls for persecution of his political enemies, he says, he "hates the other side" and is not interested in bringing the country together.

It's perplexing to me, how people and perhaps you're one of them, I don't recall, claim that "the left is inciting violence and it's the left who are the violent ones" when the person leading the right spews hate-speech constantly.

But Kimmel gets fired for saying something questionable - not a lie or an incitement to violence.

No - there is a huge double-standard being perpetrated by the trump cult.

That’s a separate debate. My point here was about workplace culture, and whether employers should be in the business of firing people over legal speech made outside of work.

 

[LurchAddams]

That’s a separate debate. My point here was about workplace culture, and whether employers should be in the business of firing people over legal speech made outside of work.

You're not going to believe this but Yakuda is sort of correct - if there is a specific policy preventing employees from expressing views on behalf of the institution? Then sure. But private citizens making posts on FB or Truth Social as a private person? If they're not saying, "Bob Miller, Professor at XYZ College" and just Bob Miller? <--- that, in my opinion, should be protected. We should never fear from our employer our exercising our right to speak freely or express our personal opinions. To expect otherwise is to sign off on fascism.

So to summarize - if you're posting opinions, keep your employer out of it, and you should be fine!

 

[Into the Night]

You’re right, schools have to follow the Constitution. The way I understand it, teachers as private citizens can share their views on political or social issues. Schools can step in only if what they say causes real problems for the school. The obvious question is whether this comment really did that.

Slander and hatred cause real problems for the school.

 

[Into the Night]

You're not going to believe this but Yakuda is sort of correct - if there is a specific policy preventing employees from expressing views on behalf of the institution?

Irrelevant.

Then sure. But private citizens making posts on FB or Truth Social as a private person? If they're not saying, "Bob Miller, Professor at XYZ College" and just Bob Miller? <--- that, in my opinion, should be protected. We should never fear from our employer our exercising our right to speak freely or express our personal opinions. To expect otherwise is to sign off on fascism.

A job is not speech.

So to summarize - if you're posting opinions, keep your employer out of it, and you should be fine!

Not necessarily.

 

[cawacko]

You're not going to believe this but Yakuda is sort of correct - if there is a specific policy preventing employees from expressing views on behalf of the institution? Then sure. But private citizens making posts on FB or Truth Social as a private person? If they're not saying, "Bob Miller, Professor at XYZ College" and just Bob Miller? <--- that, in my opinion, should be protected. We should never fear from our employer our exercising our right to speak freely or express our personal opinions. To expect otherwise is to sign off on fascism.

So to summarize - if you're posting opinions, keep your employer out of it, and you should be fine!

That’s pretty close to where I land. The tricky part is that in today’s culture, even if you post as a private person, people online will still link it to your employer and demand action. That’s where I think the real tension is. Should employers cave to that pressure, or stick to the principle you laid out?

 

[LurchAddams]

That’s pretty close to where I land. The tricky part is that in today’s culture, even if you post as a private person, people online will still link it to your employer and demand action. That’s where I think the real tension is. Should employers cave to that pressure, or stick to the principle you laid out?

No, employers should never deprive a person the right to express their opinion. It's pretty much spelled out in the 1A.

 

[cawacko]

No, employers should never deprive a person the right to express their opinion. It's pretty much spelled out in the 1A.

The First Amendment protects us from government restrictions, but it doesn’t apply to private employers. They can still choose to discipline or fire someone if they think what was said hurts the company or creates problems.

 

[EdwinA]

Deport everybody but MAGAS right?

It will make for a happier and better America.

 

[EdwinA]

Educators do not get first amendment freedoms in the classroom. If they did, all y'all's kids would still be learning about "Directed Evolution" or even just "Creation Theory" in science classes and teacher led prayer in the classroom would be just fine and dandy.

If you are willing to let that happen, then get back to us, but until then... Telling children that a victim of a crime is a "Nazi" because you do not like his politics is out of bounds and you can wait to teach lowballed values of politically based hatred to your own kids on your own time, you don't get to devalue a human being based on your own political affiliation in the classroom.

Not at schools that take Federal funds.

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

Not necessarily, and it doesn't matter. State schools are part of STATE government. The 1st amendment does NOT apply.

Gosh... I guess you just made it so states can ban guns since they are STATE governments and the 2nd amendment does NOT apply just like you claim the 1st amendment doesn't.

If you were any stupider Into the Night we would all feell sorry for you.

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

You’re right, schools have to follow the Constitution. The way I understand it, teachers as private citizens can share their views on political or social issues. Schools can step in only if what they say causes real problems for the school. The obvious question is whether this comment really did that.

It was a post on a private Facebook. The problem was the death threats by others, not the teacher's comment.

 

[EdwinA]

Should people lose their jobs over things they say outside of work, even if legal?

How about a 1st grade teacher who joins NAMBLA and marches with a NAMBLA sign in gay pride parades? Would you want that piece of shit back in a classroom on Monday? It's 'free speech n stuff', after all .... Libertoons are just as credulous and stupid, it's not just left wingers out to burn down the country.


"NAMBLA" logic - an extreme absolutist position which demands that for logical consistencies sake that certain gross crimes be allowed, in order that no one might feel restrained."


Stirling S. Newberry

 

[LurchAddams]

The First Amendment protects us from government restrictions, but it doesn’t apply to private employers. They can still choose to discipline or fire someone if they think what was said hurts the company or creates problems.

Well, then. It seems like you've arrived at your conclusion! Congrats! People should not get fired for their opinions.

 

[cawacko]

Well, then. It seems like you've arrived at your conclusion! Congrats! People should not get fired for their opinions.

I'm just stating what the law says.

Your position says people can say racist things, for example, and they shouldn't be fired for it. Some will definitely agree with you, others will say free speech has consequences and you should.

 

[LurchAddams]

I'm just stating what the law says.

Which law? In what jurisdiction?

Your position says people can say racist things, for example, and they shouldn't be fired for it. Some will definitely agree with you, others will say free speech has consequences and you should.

I think it all comes down to overall behavior. If a person behaves like a jackass, then they deserve what's coming to them.