Should people be allowed to carry handguns openly?

USFREEDOM911 said:
Brought your own posts forward, so you could aplogize for your accusation.

Capital One - Chase - I and E
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my bad, i can see why you thought that was my post. weird scripting or something, but that was not my post. here is STY's original post on it:


SmarterThanYou said:
United States Supreme Court, Murdock v. commonwealth of pennsylvania.

there is no law, which is why it's the law. Anything not specifically prohibited, is therefore allowed. Since there is no law that prohibits carrying in a bank, carrying in a bank is legal.
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Yurt said:
again...how does that apply to your claim? all i'm asking is for you to explain how it applies. i don't see it. i'm asking you to analogize the case to to the current issue.
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maybe you have misunderstood my posts. I never said there was case law for 'anything not specifically prohibited by law, is therefore legal'. That is a key to common law.

Yurt said:
that is what i'm talking about. dookie is not defined as assault, but, one can apply the current law to make dookie in face against the law.
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sure, and a grand jury can indict a ham sandwich. That doesn't mean it's against the law, however, in the circumstance you have given, 'spitting' or 'other bodily fluid or waste' is part of the defined weapon in most states.


Yurt said:
i'm not sure we disagree here. though i disagree with your statement that the bank has to put up a sign, like...no shirt, no shoes....no guns...no service.
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no, they don't have to. They can certainly come ask me to leave, or even call the cops if they don't want to do it themselves, but that doesn't make me a trespasser yet until i've been given the actual notice, verbal or written.
 
Yurt said:
cite it......you're still making posts...so stfu and cite

:)
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it does depend on the state. for example, in Texas no place of business can just place a sign or even ask a gun carrier to leave UNLESS they have the exact signage placed on their place of business according to TPC 30.06

§ 30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY CONCEALED
HANDGUN. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder:
(1) carries a handgun under the authority of
Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another
without effective consent; and
(2) received notice that:
(A) entry on the property by a license holder
with a concealed handgun was forbidden; or
(B) remaining on the property with a concealed
handgun was forbidden and failed to depart.
(b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice
if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to
act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written
communication.
(c) In this section:
(1) "Entry" has the meaning assigned by Section
30.05(b).
(2) "License holder" has the meaning assigned by
Section 46.035(f).
(3) "Written communication" means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written
language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06,
Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed
handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411,
Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this
property with a concealed handgun"; or
(B) a sign posted on the property that:
(i) includes the language described by
Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;
(ii) appears in contrasting colors with
block letters at least one inch in height; and
(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner
clearly visible to the public.
(d) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
(e) It is an exception to the application of this section
that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is
owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or
other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying
the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035.
 
Yurt said:
cite
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From the Arizona Departemnt of Public Safety site:

I entered a private business with my concealed handgun and CCW permit. The business did not have any signs posted prohibiting weapons. Shortly thereafter, an employee approached me and said they do not allow firearms in their business and I must take the gun off the premises. Can they do that?

Yes. Arizona law permits private business owners (or their designates) to prohibit weapons from being brought onto their property, whether signs are posted or not. Private businesses are typically non-government operated businesses such as grocery and department stores, convenience stores, laundromats, banks, office complexes, etc. Failure to obey the request can result in your arrest for trespassing. (ARS 13-1502 / ARS 13-1503)

Are there any firearm restrictions?
Please see below for firearm restrictions:

•Businesses serving alcohol for consumption on the premises (exceptions for peace officers and ccw permitees, see A.R.S. 4-229, A.R.S. 4-244, A.R.S. 13-3102)

•Polling places on election days (peace officers are excepted)

•School grounds (some exceptions – see below) (peace officers are excepted)

•Commercial nuclear & hydroelectric generating stations (peace officers are excepted)

•Military installations (peace officers are limited)

•Indian reservations (check w/tribe, peace officers are limited)

•Game preserves (peace officers are limited)

•National parks (peace officers are limited) more information available at www.doi.gov or contact the park service regarding pending federal legislation.

•Correctional facilities

•Federal buildings (peace officers are limited)

•Airports (in or beyond security checkpoints) (peace officers are limited)

•Where federal, state or local laws prohibit weapons (peace officers are limited)

•State or local government/private establishments or events when asked by the operator/sponsor/agent. Most government facilities will provide a location to temporarily store a firearm. Persons who refuse to leave and/or secure their weapon are trespassing and can be cited or arrested for ARS 13-1502 or ARS 13-1503, depending on the venue (peace officers are excepted)


4-229. Licenses; Handguns; Posting of Notice

A. A person with a permit issued pursuant to section 13-3112 may carry a concealed handgun on the
premises of a licensee who is an on-sale retailer unless the licensee posts a sign that clearly prohibits
the possession of weapons on the licensed premises. The sign shall conform to the following
requirements:
1. Be posted in a conspicuous location accessible to the general public and immediately adjacent to the
liquor license posted on the licensed premises.
2. Contain a pictogram that shows a firearm within a red circle and a diagonal red line across the firearm.
3. Contain the words, "no firearms allowed pursuant to A.R.S. section 4-229".
B. A person shall not carry a firearm on the licensed premises of an on-sale retailer if the licensee has posted
the notice prescribed in subsection A of this section.
C. It is an affirmative defense to a violation of subsection B of this section if:
1. The person was not informed of the notice prescribed in subsection A of this section before the
violation.
 
Yurt said:
i appreciate where you are coming from tom, but if no other country had the 1st amendment (i am aware of the international version, just a hypo), that would not change my mind on our 1st amendment.

as to other countries, i believe in israel you can open carry. i'm not sure about other countries.
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Israel, Switzerland, Czech Republic. Both Italy and France have a CCW system.
 
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