Russia offers Ukraine negotiations for surrender terms.

While Moon, Hawkeye, and conventional wisdom was that Ukraine would be overrun in a few days, I wrote a month before the invasion that Putin was not going to have that easy of a time conquering Ukraine.

I thought that it wouldn't take a few days either, however it is certain that without all the tankbusters, anti-ship missiles, armed drones and long range GPS guided rockets like HIMARS and the war would have followed a very different trajectory.
 
I thought that it wouldn't take a few days either, however it is certain that without all the tankbusters, anti-ship missiles, armed drones and long range GPS guided rockets like HIMARS and the war would have followed a very different trajectory.

Why is anyone here acting like it was a surprise and utterly unexpected that Ukraine would receive western military assistance if Putin invaded?

I already took that into my calculations when I wrote last January before the invasion that Ukraine would not be that easy for Putin to conquer.

And if I took that into my calculations, certainly Russian military planners should have folded that into their contingency planning.

The fact is, western weapons in large variety and quantity did not start arriving on the battlefield front lines until this summer, at which time Ukraine had already been holding out for months against Putin's onslaught.
 
Why is anyone here acting like it was a surprise and utterly unexpected that Ukraine would receive western military assistance if Putin invaded?

I already took that into my calculations when I wrote last January before the invasion that Ukraine would not be that easy for Putin to conquer.

And if I took that into my calculations, certainly Russian military planners should have folded that into their contingency planning.

The fact is, western weapons in large variety and quantity did not start arriving on the battlefield front lines until this summer, at which time Ukraine had already been holding out for months against Putin's onslaught.

The convoy to Kiev early on in the war was attacked with Western weapons like the British made NLAW anti-weapon. It made a huge difference in deterring the Russians from further aggression west of the Donbas.

Those anti-tank weapon are the NLAWs, or next generation light anti-tank weapons, which have been so effective against Russian vehicles that have been left exposed as a result of a lack of military coordination. Britain’s involvement in training troops dates back to Russia’s annexation of Crimea in 2014. In the face of some opposition within Whitehall, British military help for Ukraine was conducted through Operation Orbital from 2015.

Ukraine’s former president Petro Poroshenko has said that he inherited a decrepit armed forces when he came to power in 2014, which was transformed by western aid. About 22,000 Ukrainian troops have been trained through the programme.

Meanwhile, the NLAWs have been very effective, with some sources reporting an extraordinary 90% hit rate. The weapons, which can be swiftly deployed at close quarters and discarded, are lighter than the similar Javelin anti-tank missile systems, which the US has been dispatching to Ukraine. So far, Britain has sent more than 4,200 NLAWs.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...sters-are-helping-ukraine-halt-russian-attack
 
The convoy to Kiev early on in the war was attacked with Western weapons like the British made NLAW anti-weapon. It made a huge difference in deterring the Russians from further aggression west of the Donbas.

Those anti-tank weapon are the NLAWs, or next generation light anti-tank weapons, which have been so effective against Russian vehicles that have been left exposed as a result of a lack of military coordination. Britain’s involvement in training troops dates back to Russia’s annexation of Crimea in 2014. In the face of some opposition within Whitehall, British military help for Ukraine was conducted through Operation Orbital from 2015.

Ukraine’s former president Petro Poroshenko has said that he inherited a decrepit armed forces when he came to power in 2014, which was transformed by western aid. About 22,000 Ukrainian troops have been trained through the programme.

Meanwhile, the NLAWs have been very effective, with some sources reporting an extraordinary 90% hit rate. The weapons, which can be swiftly deployed at close quarters and discarded, are lighter than the similar Javelin anti-tank missile systems, which the US has been dispatching to Ukraine. So far, Britain has sent more than 4,200 NLAWs.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...sters-are-helping-ukraine-halt-russian-attack

Everybody who reads the newspapers is aware the Ukrainian army has been training with western forces for eight years and had a modest stockpile of NATO anti-tank weapons on the eve of the invasion.

That should have been taken into everyone's calculations prior to February 24.

Even knowing that information, people like moon, Hawkeye, and Dukkha were expecting quick Russian victory as of the morning of February 24.

As far as I am aware, I am the only poster on this forum who actually wrote well before the invasion that the Ukrainian army was large and capable and that Putin might have a hard time conquering Ukraine.
 
How can Putin expect to get anywhere if he begins with his "denazification" bullshit, and then a demand for Ukraine to strip itself of defenses after Russia has shown its utter heedlessness in slaughtering the civilian population.

The Ukrainian Nazis were slaughtering the civilians of the Donbas for eight years and you said ...................................................?
 
The Ukrainian Nazis were slaughtering the civilians of the Donbas for eight years and you said ...................................................?

Then why not settle the whole thing with a UN monitored referendum in Donbas to let the people there decide and leave the rest of Ukraine to Ukrainians?
 
Then why not settle the whole thing with a UN monitored referendum in Donbas to let the people there decide and leave the rest of Ukraine to Ukrainians?

The Zelenskies would never have agreed to that. Just a tad late now, eh ? They've declared independent republics and been recognized by Russia and allies.
 
The question is now not then. And if you think they wouldn't agree to that why would they consider at all what Putin is proposing?

The proposal was in February. Waaaaaay to late for that now. It's now a proxy war between NATO and Russia. The Zelenskies are expendable pawns.
 
Ukraine missed the opportunity to save its cities and who knows how many hundreds of thousands of lives.

What opportunity was that? To let Putin just do whatever he wanted?


There is no ' bluff ' involved . Russia will, imo, go tactically nuclear if needs be.

If they haven't yet, they are never gonna.

We are the only country in the world to have ever used nuclear weapons in war, and I think that streak is going to continue indefinitely.
 
Then why not settle the whole thing with a UN monitored referendum in Donbas to let the people there decide and leave the rest of Ukraine to Ukrainians?

Because Moon is lying about that and the UN going in there would reveal that he was lying.
 
What opportunity was that? To let Putin just do whatever he wanted?




If they haven't yet, they are never gonna.

We are the only country in the world to have ever used nuclear weapons in war, and I think that streak is going to continue indefinitely.

You're free to think whatever you like. Ukraine should have negotiated a favorable surrender. Too late now.
 
You're free to think whatever you like. Ukraine should have negotiated a favorable surrender. Too late now.

Why would Ukraine surrender when Russia is losing the war?

Shouldn't Russia surrender since their invasion failed?
 
Why would Ukraine surrender when Russia is losing the war?

Shouldn't Russia surrender since their invasion failed?

I don't know where you get your information from- but most mainstream, non-American reportage, shows that the Russians now occupy 20-25% of Ukraine.
 
They will never keep it long term. They have made generational enemies.

Crimea is permanently restored to Russia, the Donbas republics have been recognized by Russia and allied states. Russia controls the Black Sea and what's left of Ukraine is now land-locked.
Maybe the Ukrainian Nazis will ask nicely for them to give it all up.
 
February.

Russia ready to negotiate with Ukraine – Kremlin

The Kremlin presents Kiev with two demands

Moscow is willing to negotiate terms of surrender with Kiev regarding the ongoing Russian military offensive currently taking place in Ukraine, Kremlin Press Secretary Dmitry Peskov said on Thursday.

According to Peskov, Russian President Vladimir Putin has expressed his preparedness to engage in discussions with his Ukrainian counterpart, with a focus on obtaining a guarantee of neutral status and the promise of no weapons on its territory.

These are terms that, according to Peskov, would enable the achievement of the demilitarization and denazification of Ukraine, and eliminate what Russia currently views as a threat to the security of its state and people.




https://www.rt.com/russia/550505-kre...-demands-kiev/

Should have taken the offer.
 
I don't know where you get your information from- but most mainstream, non-American reportage, shows that the Russians now occupy 20-25% of Ukraine.

Yeah, but that includes the parts they already were illegally occupying before they invaded the rest.
 
Yeah, but that includes the parts they already were illegally occupying before they invaded the rest.

Which ' parts' are you referring to ?

There's nothing ' illegal ' in the self-determination of indigenous populations.
 
There's nothing ' illegal ' in the self-determination of indigenous populations.

There sure is when you bus Nazis and white supremacists in to those regions in order to destabilize them, which is what Putin did beginning in 2014.
 
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