On the Bright side!

Jarod said:
I have always really disliked the Establishment.

Correctly or incorrectly, when I became politically aware, at about 12 or 13 years of age Ronald Reagan was the Establishment, from my perspective. I have since considered the Republican or Conservative party as the group propping up and promoting the Establishment.

It was not too long after the Vietnam War and conservatives told me how it was wrong to question authority.
The Churches preached against being rebellious.
Those who protested were liberals, Conservatives were often appalled.
Order and discipline (propping up of the Establishment) were always actively promoted by the Conservatives I knew.
I was told, by conservatives, that the police were always correct...
There was a longing to go back to the 1950's where social order was more structured and set in stone.

Plenty more examples of how it was the Conservatives trying to promote the Establishment and the liberals fighting it back then, at least from my perspective.

I am ready to declare that Conservative "Establishment" dead.

There is a liberal establishment also. I have only begun to see that in the last 10 or 15 years. I don't like it either, and I think the nomination of Sanders will help kill it. I am a liberal because I have always equated anti-establishmentism with liberalism, I see that is not absolutely so.

Anyway, the success of Trump, while deplorable to me due to his xenophobia, racism and authoritarian attitude, has a bright side because, while I personally believe he is the ultimate establishment candidate, his success is due to the fact that his supporters see him as a non-establishment candidate. There is finally a groundswell to end the established order and build a new, more fair, more modern structure by which we should base our culture and society, I can only see that as a good thing.

I hope its someone like Sanders who leads us into the new world. He is clearly more popular than Trump, so maybe it will happen.
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Won't you miss all those Rednecks heads exploding if Hillary gets elected like they did when Barry was elected? Do you really want to miss out on that kind of fun? :)
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Won't you miss all those Rednecks heads exploding if Hillary gets elected like they did when Barry was elected? Do you really want to miss out on that kind of fun? :)
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200.gif


A black guy is our what?​
 
I Love America said:
Ahhh yes those pesky corporations again.

You do realize that corporations by themselves can't make you do anything right?

It is amazing that you put all the fault at the feet of the "corporations" and hold politicians blameless.

It was you who championed Obamas green energy plans funneling taxpayer money to CORPORATIONS. Then you called it an investment.
/QUOTE]

I did?
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Jarod said:
I Love America said:
Ahhh yes those pesky corporations again.

You do realize that corporations by themselves can't make you do anything right?

It is amazing that you put all the fault at the feet of the "corporations" and hold politicians blameless.

It was you who championed Obamas green energy plans funneling taxpayer money to CORPORATIONS. Then you called it an investment.
/QUOTE]

I did?
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Yes
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SmarterthanYou said:
Sanders and Trump are the opposite sides of the same authoritarian establishment coin. Both of them are lying through their teeth and if elected, will revert right back to their parties establishment policies and laugh as you sit back and praise everything they do because you've convinced yourself it's 'not the same'.
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Well, socialism is authoritarian by nature, so anyone who think Sanders will rid us of the establishment is delusional. I'm not so sure about Trump. You may be right, but if you are then the establishment and Trump have something going, because the establishment hates Trump.

Do you think it's a charade? Not being snarky, I go back and forth with it. One day Trump appeals to me and the next day I don't trust him any farther than I can throw him.
 
Darth Hussein Omar said:
Well, socialism is authoritarian by nature, so anyone who think Sanders will rid us of the establishment is delusional. I'm not so sure about Trump. You may be right, but if you are then the establishment and Trump have something going, because the establishment hates Trump.

Do you think it's a charade? Not being snarky, I go back and forth with it. One day Trump appeals to me and the next day I don't trust him any farther than I can throw him.
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Why do you say socialism is authoritarian in nature?
 
PostmodernProphet said:
do you believe the state owning all businesses wouldn't be authoritarian?.......
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It certainty could be, but not necessarily so, especially in a Democracy. I think you are confused if you think a socialist system requires the State to own all businesses.
 
Darth Hussein Omar said:
Because socialism requires a lot of centralized control by the government and that always takes control away from the people. Control is freedom.
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But if the people are the government?

Using your logic, is it not possible that Capitalism results in even more control, by wealth instead of government.
 
Darth Hussein Omar said:
Well, socialism is authoritarian by nature, so anyone who think Sanders will rid us of the establishment is delusional. I'm not so sure about Trump. You may be right, but if you are then the establishment and Trump have something going, because the establishment hates Trump.

Do you think it's a charade? Not being snarky, I go back and forth with it. One day Trump appeals to me and the next day I don't trust him any farther than I can throw him.
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you last line is just what the republican establishment is thinking.



trumps popularity sure shows that the republicans flirting with libertarianism are a smaller faction than the faction that just wants a tuff talking daddy to save them butt not save all those black and brown people because they are not REAL Americans.



good bye libertarian faction


you are a tiny ted cruize faction
 
Jarod said:
It certainty could be, but not necessarily so, especially in a Democracy. I think you are confused if you think a socialist system requires the State to own all businesses.
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requires?.....perhaps not.......idealizes?......absolutely.....the more institutions not controlled by the state, the less socialistic the state is........
 
PostmodernProphet said:
requires?.....perhaps not.......idealizes?......absolutely.....the more institutions not controlled by the state, the less socialistic the state is........
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Not necessarily, but I do agree that there is a continuum between pure Capitalism to Communism, with Socialism somewhere in-between. So Sanders advocates ideas that are more Socialist than Rand Paul, I agree.. but is he the brand of socialist that results in authoritarianism?

Is Rand Paul an advocate of the type of unfettered Capitalism that results in authoritarianism?
 
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