Obama Has Lost Chris Matthews. Hope and Change is Officially Over

[apple0154]

It would be easier to list what you're NOT lying about.

Everyone is STILL NOT COVERED!

How many times do I have to tell you that ObamaCare is the first step. Once the idea sinks in the Repub's heads then discussions can go forward towards improving it.

What "more important negotiations" do you mean? Where the Democrat Select Committee is going to eat lunch today? The Democrats held full control of the House and Senate, and REFUSED to have negotiations on ANY aspect of the health care bill! They rammed it through using every trick in the book, without a single bipartisan vote! There was no negotiating!

Negotiatiions on improving government health care. Once ObamaCare becomes fully implemented the negotiations will revolve around how to fine tune government health care, not whether government health care should be implemented.

And yeah, you better believe the government is going to be setting limits, and not just on the amounts you can sue for... Every aspect of your health and decisions about your health, will now be subject to governmental review and approval. If the government doesn't think it's worth it for you to have cancer surgery, guess fucking what, moron? You won't have it! When it becomes too expensive to take care of your old ass, the government might decide to implement an euthanasia shot, to get you off the books and use the resources caring for the younger generation! Yeah, it's a really fucking brilliant idea you have of turning matters of our health over to the government! Fucking Genius! ---NOT!

Why do you write such nonsense when you know nothing about government health care? Government health care is not the same as having an insurance policy with a company. Let's say you're insured with WellPoint. It's similar to insuring ones car with Allstate. Each individual decides on what coverage they want and what they can afford. Should an accident happen, loss of a leg or major car damage, the insurance company(s) decide on what they're going to do. Do they pay for a prosthesis? A top quality one or little more than a wooden stump? Do they pay to fix your car or write it off and pay you a lot less than what it was worth?

Government medical does not work that way. If one loses a leg they and the doctor decide which prothesis is best and that's the one they get. The government has no say in the decision. The decision is made between the doctor and patient. That's it. Try to comprehend the difference.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

How many times do I have to tell you that ObamaCare is the first step. Once the idea sinks in the Repub's heads then discussions can go forward towards improving it.



Negotiatiions on improving government health care. Once ObamaCare becomes fully implemented the negotiations will revolve around how to fine tune government health care, not whether government health care should be implemented.



Why do you write such nonsense when you know nothing about government health care? Government health care is not the same as having an insurance policy with a company. Let's say you're insured with WellPoint. It's similar to insuring ones car with Allstate. Each individual decides on what coverage they want and what they can afford. Should an accident happen, loss of a leg or major car damage, the insurance company(s) decide on what they're going to do. Do they pay for a prosthesis? A top quality one or little more than a wooden stump? Do they pay to fix your car or write it off and pay you a lot less than what it was worth?

Government medical does not work that way. If one loses a leg they and the doctor decide which prothesis is best and that's the one they get. The government has no say in the decision. The decision is made between the doctor and patient. That's it. Try to comprehend the difference.

Try to comprehend, if the government is responsible for paying the bill, and the government is BROKE... they'll be calling you STUMPY!

 

[apple0154]

Try to comprehend, if the government is responsible for paying the bill, and the government is BROKE... they'll be calling you STUMPY!

Here we go, again. We'll take this one step at a time.

The US is the richest nation on earth. What constitutes a nation? It's the people that constitute a nation. (Following so far?)

OK. The people elect the government. It is a government by the people and for the people. (Still with me?)

OK. Now we're going to connect the dots. If the US is the richest nation and that's determined by the citizens of the nation and the citizens form the government then it has to follow the government is the richest government on earth.

Now that wasn't so difficult to figure out, was it? That's why I say the richest nation on earth can afford to look after it's ill and poor.

Any questions? Is there anything you don't understand?

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Here we go, again. We'll take this one step at a time.

Okay... this should be fun!

The US is the richest nation on earth.

It depends on how you define "rich." In terms of wealth-to-debt, I am sure China is probably richer, being they hold much of our debt.

What constitutes a nation? It's the people that constitute a nation. (Following so far?)

Nope, because again, this is not necessarily true. In some countries, the dictator constitutes the nation and decides which people constitute his subjects. In other nations, the central government constitutes the nation, the people merely work for them. In the US, a lot of things constitute the nation, the people, the cultures, the constitution.

OK. The people elect the government. It is a government by the people and for the people. (Still with me?)

In our country it works this way, in other countries it doesn't.

OK. Now we're going to connect the dots. If the US is the richest nation and that's determined by the citizens of the nation and the citizens form the government then it has to follow the government is the richest government on earth.

But as we see, you have compounded idiocy and fallacy working here. We're not rich, we're broke. We owe 15 trillion dollars. Do you understand that means we not only don't have money, we owe fifteen fucking trillion dollars... can you even tell me how many zeros are in a trillion, off the top of your empty little head? To just mindlessly insist that we are not in this situation, and that we actually have all kinds of money and resources that we DON'T HAVE, is insanity.

Now that wasn't so difficult to figure out, was it? That's why I say the richest nation on earth can afford to look after it's ill and poor.

Any questions? Is there anything you don't understand?

First off, we already looked after our sick and poor, we've been doing an adequate job of that for nearly a century. Ben Franklin built the first hospital in America, and actually implemented the first 'indigent care' policy. But beyond that, you are still stuck on stupid, not comprehending we are broke. Our country can not afford to provide complete and total health care from head to toe for every ache and pain at the quality we currently have, it is insane to think this is possible, even if we WERE wealthy!

 

[Alias]

I told you why? It was just a tactic to delay serious talks. That's also the reason the Repubs were locked out. They didn't want to co-operate. They are against government medical so what input would they offer?

I thought you'd understand the analogy I gave about vacations but I assumed too much from you so let me spell it out. If a family is discussing vacations and one member does not want to go on vacation anywhere what input would they offer? They'd just be a negative influence on everyone else. So the only alternative is to get them out of the room. The negativity and bullshit over medical care had gone on long enough. The Dems put their foot down. The Repubs have no one to blame but themselves.

Any questions?

This is classic......"They didn't want to cooperate".

So why did so many Dems get tossed out of the House and Senate last year?

 

[Alias]

Here we go, again. We'll take this one step at a time.

The US is the richest nation on earth. What constitutes a nation? It's the people that constitute a nation. (Following so far?)

OK. The people elect the government. It is a government by the people and for the people. (Still with me?)

OK. Now we're going to connect the dots. If the US is the richest nation and that's determined by the citizens of the nation and the citizens form the government then it has to follow the government is the richest government on earth.

Now that wasn't so difficult to figure out, was it? That's why I say the richest nation on earth can afford to look after it's ill and poor.

Any questions? Is there anything you don't understand?

If we are so rich, then why are we 15 trillion in debt?

 

[icedancer2theend]

And you think that when the government is completely in charge of this, they will continue to allow unlimited malpractice lawsuits?

Let me clue you in, when the government has to be responsible for paying the claims, instead of an insurance company... you better believe there will be laws made to protect the government from frivolous lawsuits. You just shot your golden goose in the head, and you don't even know it!

This!

 

[Rune]

Originally Posted by Dixie
And you think that when the government is completely in charge of this, they will continue to allow unlimited malpractice lawsuits?

Let me clue you in, when the government has to be responsible for paying the claims, instead of an insurance company... you better believe there will be laws made to protect the government from frivolous lawsuits. You just shot your golden goose in the head, and you don't even know it!

Wait, so somehow you think the government is going to take over malpractice insurance?
WTF are you talking about?

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Originally Posted by Dixie
And you think that when the government is completely in charge of this, they will continue to allow unlimited malpractice lawsuits?

Let me clue you in, when the government has to be responsible for paying the claims, instead of an insurance company... you better believe there will be laws made to protect the government from frivolous lawsuits. You just shot your golden goose in the head, and you don't even know it!

Wait, so somehow you think the government is going to take over malpractice insurance?
WTF are you talking about?

How are doctors supposed to pay for malpractice insurance if they aren't making money from the insurance company anymore, because now.. that's the government, and they decide what they want to pay for? Your cart is ahead of your horse here... The government will have to ensure doctors remain in practice, and that means either some major TORT reforms, or they are going to provide the malpractice insurance too. Got to be one or the other, because you've eliminated the profit from the doctors, they can't afford to practice unless you do. Now maybe in your fantasy, we can just ignore what will happen, and wait until it all collapses, and we no longer have any doctors... but some of us are a little concerned about this, it doesn't sound like a road to better health care.

What did you think "government takeover of healthcare" meant? Were you under some delusion that it meant government would dole out free health care to anyone who wanted it? Really? You thought that was what we did?

 

[Alias]

How are doctors supposed to pay for malpractice insurance if they aren't making money from the insurance company anymore, because now.. that's the government, and they decide what they want to pay for? Your cart is ahead of your horse here... The government will have to ensure doctors remain in practice, and that means either some major TORT reforms, or they are going to provide the malpractice insurance too. Got to be one or the other, because you've eliminated the profit from the doctors, they can't afford to practice unless you do. Now maybe in your fantasy, we can just ignore what will happen, and wait until it all collapses, and we no longer have any doctors... but some of us are a little concerned about this, it doesn't sound like a road to better health care.

What did you think "government takeover of healthcare" meant? Were you under some delusion that it meant government would dole out free health care to anyone who wanted it? Really? You thought that was what we did?

Not to worry. Any problems will be fixed by a wave of Obama's magic wand. If that doesn't work then they will blame republicans. Same old, same old. Don't forget.......we're stupid and they're smart.

 

[Rune]

How are doctors supposed to pay for malpractice insurance if they aren't making money from the insurance company anymore, because now.. that's the government, and they decide what they want to pay for? Your cart is ahead of your horse here... The government will have to ensure doctors remain in practice, and that means either some major TORT reforms, or they are going to provide the malpractice insurance too. Got to be one or the other, because you've eliminated the profit from the doctors, they can't afford to practice unless you do. Now maybe in your fantasy, we can just ignore what will happen, and wait until it all collapses, and we no longer have any doctors... but some of us are a little concerned about this, it doesn't sound like a road to better health care.

What did you think "government takeover of healthcare" meant? Were you under some delusion that it meant government would dole out free health care to anyone who wanted it? Really? You thought that was what we did?

There isn't even a public option. Nothing that you are saying makes any sense.

 

[Alias]

There isn't even a public option. Nothing that you are saying makes any sense.

If the health care bill fails and Obama is defeated, are you going to kill yourself? Will the underlying grief of your murdered child coupled with the failure of Obama and his policies take you over the edge?

 

[Rune]

If the health care bill fails and Obama is defeated, are you going to kill yourself? Will the underlying grief of your murdered child coupled with the failure of Obama and his policies take you over the edge?

No, but I will assist your suicide if you need help.

 

[Alias]

No, but I will assist your suicide if you need help.

I'm not the one here who is full of grief and sadness because of their murdered child by their girlfried. How sad. Please hang on. You are loved.

 

[apple0154]

Okay... this should be fun!

It depends on how you define "rich." In terms of wealth-to-debt, I am sure China is probably richer, being they hold much of our debt.

Nope, because again, this is not necessarily true. In some countries, the dictator constitutes the nation and decides which people constitute his subjects. In other nations, the central government constitutes the nation, the people merely work for them. In the US, a lot of things constitute the nation, the people, the cultures, the constitution.

In our country it works this way, in other countries it doesn't.

Not sure what all the above was about. What country do you think I'm talking about?

But as we see, you have compounded idiocy and fallacy working here. We're not rich, we're broke. We owe 15 trillion dollars. Do you understand that means we not only don't have money, we owe fifteen fucking trillion dollars... can you even tell me how many zeros are in a trillion, off the top of your empty little head? To just mindlessly insist that we are not in this situation, and that we actually have all kinds of money and resources that we DON'T HAVE, is insanity.

If I were you I wouldn't be talking about idiocy when I have to tell you what country we're discussing. What do you think the combined wealth of all the citizens is and that includes corporations because they are "people", right?

First off, we already looked after our sick and poor, we've been doing an adequate job of that for nearly a century. Ben Franklin built the first hospital in America, and actually implemented the first 'indigent care' policy. But beyond that, you are still stuck on stupid, not comprehending we are broke. Our country can not afford to provide complete and total health care from head to toe for every ache and pain at the quality we currently have, it is insane to think this is possible, even if we WERE wealthy!

Is knowing 45, 000 people die every year from a lack of medical insurance/care constitute doing an adequate job? No one is suggesting "complete and total health care from head to toe for every ache and pain". How about enough health care to prevent death? As for it being impossible we've been over this before. Rich and poor countries, large and small countries, capitalist and socialist countries, northern countries and southern countries, dry countries and wet countries, flat countries and hilly countries, landlocked countries and maritime countries...do you see a common denominator there? It's countries! Government medical has been implemented is every possible type of country and the vast majority of industrialized countries see a lower cost and a higher longevity than the US.

What don't you understand?

 

[apple0154]

This is classic......"They didn't want to cooperate".

So why did so many Dems get tossed out of the House and Senate last year?

Because of the lies and misconceptions or perhaps we should call it "faulty intelligence" like the "faulty intelligence" which led to the Iraq war. The death panels, poor health care, a shortage of doctors....were the voters told the citizens in virtually all industrialized countries with government health care realize one third less cost and enjoy longer life? I don't recall any Repubs stating those facts. Do you?

Either the Repubs are woefully ignorant concerning government health care or are liars. Whichever the case they had nothing to contribute to the discussion regarding ObamaCare and like with Iraq are misleading the people.

 

[apple0154]

If we are so rich, then why are we 15 trillion in debt?

Because some folks gambled the money away and the taxpayer got stuck with the bill. However, some of the money that was reimbursed for bad gambling debts was given to people who are still in the country meaning that money is still here. And then there's the wars. So, bring the troops home and tax the folks who received the money. That will make a nice dent in the debt.

Then make sure social programs for the citizens are placed on the priority list. Either change the bank/investment rules or inform them there will never be another reimbursement. Then, in case another Rumsfeld enters politics and gets the idea there's plenty of money to cover the option of war he'll be reminded social programs come first. The citizens come first. Novel idea, huh?

 

[apple0154]

How are doctors supposed to pay for malpractice insurance if they aren't making money from the insurance company anymore, because now.. that's the government, and they decide what they want to pay for? Your cart is ahead of your horse here... The government will have to ensure doctors remain in practice, and that means either some major TORT reforms, or they are going to provide the malpractice insurance too. Got to be one or the other, because you've eliminated the profit from the doctors, they can't afford to practice unless you do. Now maybe in your fantasy, we can just ignore what will happen, and wait until it all collapses, and we no longer have any doctors... but some of us are a little concerned about this, it doesn't sound like a road to better health care.

What did you think "government takeover of healthcare" meant? Were you under some delusion that it meant government would dole out free health care to anyone who wanted it? Really? You thought that was what we did?

Everyone wants tort reform and the government decides so what's the difference? And in your scenario assuming the doctors work for the government how long do you think the government will keep an incompetent doctor in employ?

Sorry, Dix, but the dozens of countries that have government medical already addressed this problem. Nice try, though.

Hey, maybe the Repubs could use that. "A government doctor could amputate your leg by mistake and and then toss you aside without any compensation condemning you to a life of joblessness/homelessness" along with mentioning death panels and....hey, what about a government conspiracy involving medical experiments like what was done in the past? Remember the LSD experiments in the 50s when the US and Canada conspired together? I think that would really scare the people what with all the advancements in genetics.

Can you see the National Inquirer headlines? "Dad goes to hospital for a hernia operation. Comes out a werewolf!" Or "Mom enters hospital to deliver baby and grows a third breast! Government denies any genetic manipulation."

I suggest the Repubs consider the following pre-election ad. Government medical will result in a virtual Island of Dr. Moreau! Stop ObamaCare before YOU are hybridized! Let your Congressional Representative know you're happy with your current human form.

I think that will strike even more fear than death panels. What do you think?

 

[DamnYankee]

I can't believe ANY of you have DY on anything but ignore. He's no debater. He engages in ad homs as much as anyone on this site. -Socrtease

Dune, stop being such a fag.

 

[Alias]

Because of the lies and misconceptions or perhaps we should call it "faulty intelligence" like the "faulty intelligence" which led to the Iraq war. The death panels, poor health care, a shortage of doctors....were the voters told the citizens in virtually all industrialized countries with government health care realize one third less cost and enjoy longer life? I don't recall any Repubs stating those facts. Do you?

Either the Repubs are woefully ignorant concerning government health care or are liars. Whichever the case they had nothing to contribute to the discussion regarding ObamaCare and like with Iraq are misleading the people.

Oh, I see...."faulty intelligence". So the nation that elected Obama President will next year remove him from office and it's because of "faulty intelligence". Interesting.

So when people vote lefty they are smart and when they vote righty they do so because of "faulty intelligence". You can't argue with logic like that. I can tell you're really really smart. I bet you've been to college.