Obama Has Lost Chris Matthews. Hope and Change is Officially Over

[apple0154]

What you are unable to grasp is, there is no such thing as "free medical care" anywhere in the world, or reality in which we live. At some level, someone pays for it, whether the consumer, the taxpayer, or both. Obamacare did nothing to address the cost of health care, it simply shifted the burden for paying for it, away from the consumer and to the government (or taxpayer.) The government, in turn, mandated employers carry some of the burden, which is primarily responsible for the ZERO JOB GROWTH we currently have. In the process of involving governmental bureaucracy, you have dramatically decreased cost-effectiveness, and made the actual health care cost much more per person. With the mandates, hundreds of clinics and doctor's offices will be closed, no longer available to the people... you've dramatically decreased the availability of health care across the board. Not only did Obamacare fail to address the problems driving up health care costs, they implemented more governmental requirements to be met, which will exacerbate the problems, which still remain.

Nothing about this pile of government shit is "sleek" or "fair" and it certainly isn't MORE economical.

"Obamacare did nothing to address the cost of health care, it simply shifted the burden for paying for it, away from the consumer and to the government (or taxpayer.)"

Exactly. That's the first step.

"The government, in turn, mandated employers carry some of the burden, which is primarily responsible for the ZERO JOB GROWTH we currently have."

While it's doubtful ObamaCare is fully responsible considering free trade, technological advancements, etc. the goal now is to remove employer contributions and make it a truly universal plan.

"In the process of involving governmental bureaucracy, you have dramatically decreased cost-effectiveness, and made the actual health care cost much more per person."

That is the result due to opposition to a full universal plan.

Again, check out the statistics. Every country with a universal plan, every country, no exception, has lower costs and virtually all industrialized countries have increased longevity. Universal medical works. It's been proven, over and over. What needs to be done is a complete conversion to universal medical. No compromises. No exceptions. No half way approach and I'm willing to bet that will be done during Obama's second term if he can get a majority win.

Lower costs and greater longevity. What else is there to consider when discussing a medical plan?

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

"Obamacare did nothing to address the cost of health care, it simply shifted the burden for paying for it, away from the consumer and to the government (or taxpayer.)"

Exactly. That's the first step.

The first step into a pile of shit, or the wrong direction? Again, NOTHING was done to address COST of health care!

"The government, in turn, mandated employers carry some of the burden, which is primarily responsible for the ZERO JOB GROWTH we currently have."

While it's doubtful ObamaCare is fully responsible considering free trade, technological advancements, etc. the goal now is to remove employer contributions and make it a truly universal plan.

Yeah, it must be those pesky technological advancements which only first started happening under Obama! Those Evil Righties! And free trade... *gasp* OMG... we never had to deal with that before Obama! Back before Obama we didn't have free trade and jobs were plentiful, again it's obviously a right-wing conspiracy!

Also, I don't get it.. If you remove employer contributions, who is paying for it? Oh, that's right... it's FREE because the GOVERNMENT is paying for it with their big endless pile of money! How silly of me!

"In the process of involving governmental bureaucracy, you have dramatically decreased cost-effectiveness, and made the actual health care cost much more per person."

That is the result due to opposition to a full universal plan.

A fully universal plan would have driven the cost even higher, you fucking moron!

Again, check out the statistics. Every country with a universal plan, every country, no exception, has lower costs and virtually all industrialized countries have increased longevity. Universal medical works. It's been proven, over and over. What needs to be done is a complete conversion to universal medical. No compromises. No exceptions. No half way approach and I'm willing to bet that will be done during Obama's second term if he can get a majority win.

Lower costs and greater longevity. What else is there to consider when discussing a medical plan?

No, asswipe... YOU fucking check out the statistics. People don't live longer in countries who have socialized medicine. The medical care is sub-par, and way behind the US in terms of technology and advancement. In Canada, it takes 6 months to diagnose someone with diabetes or high blood pressure. They are amputating people's feet to avoid having to pay for orthopedic shoes! No place that has socialized medicine is better quality or availability than the US.

I don't really care what other countries wanted, the majority of Americans did not want a universal government-run health care system, and they still don't. You and the Democrats decided you knew better, and forced it on us. Now you will pay the political price for that. Enjoy your little fantasy for the next year, because after that, Liberalism is going to take a long hiatus, I do believe. People are absolutely fed up with you and your bullshit, and if the Supreme Court doesn't beat us to it, we will repeal Obamacare.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

Again, NOTHING was done to address COST of health care!

but....but.....gubmint's paying for it, why do you have to address costs?......

 

[Onceler]

but....but.....gubmint's paying for it, why do you have to address costs?......

You try so hard to be clever, but it's always a little short of the mark. No worries - we're all pulling for you....

 

[NOVA]

You try so hard to be clever, but it's always a little short of the mark. No worries - we're all pulling for you....

I see you have that problem too.....but then, you're very short of the mark......

 

[Onceler]

It's so cute how much bravs & PMP stick up for each other. Bravs actually admitted to me last week that he desperately needs others to jump to his defense; it was kinda embarassing, to tell the truth...

 

[Alias]

Bipartisan? You mean in a manner where the greedy still have a chance to line their pockets and the ill still suffer? The only bipartisan participation necessary is how to implement universal coverage, not whether it should be implemented. That was the problem from day one.

It's like a family sitting down and discusisng where to go on vacation. If one member does not want to go on any vacation what will their input? They will have negative remarks to make no matter what is suggested so they may as well not participate in the discussion.

That's a very dramatic rant, but it doesn't fix the problem. The President promised a bipartisan effort, then wouldn't budge or compromise with repubs, so he bribed some blue dog dems, and then your party got their asses kicked last November.

Do you have a memory problem?

 

[apple0154]

The first step into a pile of shit, or the wrong direction? Again, NOTHING was done to address COST of health care!

That's because the full government program hasn't been implemented yet.

Yeah, it must be those pesky technological advancements which only first started happening under Obama! Those Evil Righties! And free trade... *gasp* OMG... we never had to deal with that before Obama! Back before Obama we didn't have free trade and jobs were plentiful, again it's obviously a right-wing conspiracy!

Also, I don't get it.. If you remove employer contributions, who is paying for it? Oh, that's right... it's FREE because the GOVERNMENT is paying for it with their big endless pile of money! How silly of me!

Did you miss the near financial meltdown because you were melting down?

A fully universal plan would have driven the cost even higher, you fucking moron!

Stop being stupid and research the statistics.

No, asswipe... YOU fucking check out the statistics. People don't live longer in countries who have socialized medicine. The medical care is sub-par, and way behind the US in terms of technology and advancement. In Canada, it takes 6 months to diagnose someone with diabetes or high blood pressure. They are amputating people's feet to avoid having to pay for orthopedic shoes! No place that has socialized medicine is better quality or availability than the US.

Here's a list. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy. In case you're unaware you live in the United States, number 36 on the list below Australia, Spain, Canada, the United Kingdom....

I don't really care what other countries wanted, the majority of Americans did not want a universal government-run health care system, and they still don't. You and the Democrats decided you knew better, and forced it on us. Now you will pay the political price for that. Enjoy your little fantasy for the next year, because after that, Liberalism is going to take a long hiatus, I do believe. People are absolutely fed up with you and your bullshit, and if the Supreme Court doesn't beat us to it, we will repeal Obamacare.

Wishful thinking on your part. As the citizens realize the benefits of ObamaCare, which some are already doing such as young people up to 26 years of age and their parents, and learn the truth about all the lies and deception spread by the Repubs and greedy people profiting off the illness of others....well, prepare yourself for change.

And for God's sake educate yourself. Government medical results in lower cost and greater longevity. Read the facts and weep. The lies put forward by you and others like you are being exposed for what they are, lies.

Now co-operate and get with the program.

 

[apple0154]

That's a very dramatic rant, but it doesn't fix the problem. The President promised a bipartisan effort, then wouldn't budge or compromise with repubs, so he bribed some blue dog dems, and then your party got their asses kicked last November.

Do you have a memory problem?

No memory problem here. Obama tried to get the Repubs on board but they refused. The discussion was how to implement the best government policy, not whether one should be implemented and the Repubs refused to go along.

Didn't you see the movie, "The Longest Yard"? To get along, you go along.

The Repubs disqualified themselves. Unfortunate, but true.

 

[Liberty]

http://tv.breitbart.com/thrill-is-g...ma-i-hear-stories-that-you-would-not-believe/

The bankers (slave owners) must have given him the green light.

 

[Alias]

No memory problem here. Obama tried to get the Repubs on board but they refused. The discussion was how to implement the best government policy, not whether one should be implemented and the Repubs refused to go along.

Didn't you see the movie, "The Longest Yard"? To get along, you go along.

The Repubs disqualified themselves. Unfortunate, but true.

You're a liar. Why couldn't you include some tort reform like we asked for?

 

[apple0154]

You're a liar.

What am I lying about? Do try to be specific.

Why couldn't you include some tort reform like we asked for?

Because tort reform would have done little to ensure everyone was covered. Just one more band-aid when major surgery was necessary and the negotiations for tort reform would have sidetracked the more important negotiations. Anyway, when government medical is fully implemented tort reform will be a moot subject. The government will set limits on how much a person can sue the government for regarding damages. It's like going along the side-walk and breaking an ankle because the side-walk had lifted in an area and one trips. Most governments set a limit on how much a person can sue for that kind of damage. The same idea will most likely be used.

 

[Alias]

What am I lying about? Do try to be specific.



Because tort reform would have done little to ensure everyone was covered. Just one more band-aid when major surgery was necessary and the negotiations for tort reform would have sidetracked the more important negotiations. Anyway, when government medical is fully implemented tort reform will be a moot subject. The government will set limits on how much a person can sue the government for regarding damages. It's like going along the side-walk and breaking an ankle because the side-walk had lifted in an area and one trips. Most governments set a limit on how much a person can sue for that kind of damage. The same idea will most likely be used.

You're lying because if tort reform is not big deal then why not do it? Republicans were locked out of meetings by dems. You're a liar.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

What am I lying about? Do try to be specific.

It would be easier to list what you're NOT lying about.

Because tort reform would have done little to ensure everyone was covered.

Everyone is STILL NOT COVERED!

Just one more band-aid when major surgery was necessary and the negotiations for tort reform would have sidetracked the more important negotiations. Anyway, when government medical is fully implemented tort reform will be a moot subject. The government will set limits on how much a person can sue the government for regarding damages. It's like going along the side-walk and breaking an ankle because the side-walk had lifted in an area and one trips. Most governments set a limit on how much a person can sue for that kind of damage. The same idea will most likely be used.

What "more important negotiations" do you mean? Where the Democrat Select Committee is going to eat lunch today? The Democrats held full control of the House and Senate, and REFUSED to have negotiations on ANY aspect of the health care bill! They rammed it through using every trick in the book, without a single bipartisan vote! There was no negotiating!

And yeah, you better believe the government is going to be setting limits, and not just on the amounts you can sue for... Every aspect of your health and decisions about your health, will now be subject to governmental review and approval. If the government doesn't think it's worth it for you to have cancer surgery, guess fucking what, moron? You won't have it! When it becomes too expensive to take care of your old ass, the government might decide to implement an euthanasia shot, to get you off the books and use the resources caring for the younger generation! Yeah, it's a really fucking brilliant idea you have of turning matters of our health over to the government! Fucking Genius! ---NOT!

 

[PostmodernProphet]

It's so cute how much bravs & PMP stick up for each other. Bravs actually admitted to me last week that he desperately needs others to jump to his defense; it was kinda embarassing, to tell the truth...

its even cuter to see how diligent Onceler is in avoiding Dixie's point......that NOTHING WAS DONE TO ADDRESS THE COST OF HEALTH CARE!!!!!!......(subtlety fails, perhaps shouting will break through his force field).......

 

[PostmodernProphet]

No memory problem here. Obama tried to get the Repubs on board but they refused. The discussion was how to implement the best government policy, not whether one should be implemented and the Repubs refused to go along.

Didn't you see the movie, "The Longest Yard"? To get along, you go along.

The Repubs disqualified themselves. Unfortunate, but true.

you do have a point.......I can recall the "I won, get over it" reaching out and despite the fact Reid didn't invite any Republicans to the regurgitating sessions, he did permit them to stand outside the door and knock......all lessons which will be remembered if Republicans take control of the senate in 12, I'm sure........

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

I know what the Republicans would do with a term. They would destroy America, and end it as a global power. My dog would be preferable to a Republican president.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

The Democrats held full control of the House and Senate, and REFUSED to have negotiations on ANY aspect of the health care bill! They rammed it through using every trick in the book, without a single bipartisan vote! There was no negotiating!

If we are not dealing with a force that is willing to put universal coverage on the table, there is no need for negotiations. In fact, the Democrats pointlessly trudged on with stupid useless negotiation after stupid useless negotiation. I don't see why they tried. It was stupid of them. The Republicans should've been ignored. It's a tragedy they weren't.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

And yeah, you better believe the government is going to be setting limits, and not just on the amounts you can sue for... Every aspect of your health and decisions about your health, will now be subject to governmental review and approval. If the government doesn't think it's worth it for you to have cancer surgery, guess fucking what, moron? You won't have it!

Dixie, now you are just making things up. There are minimum standards for healthcare. There are no maximums. You deal with your insurer, not the government. If you already have insurance, nothing changes. If you don't, you get minimum coverage. If you wish to get more after that, shoot for the moon. If your insurer won't cover something, you are free to pay for it out of pocket. Your claims are ridiculous and absurd. In cases where the government does have some degree of influence in implementing healthcare policy, such as medicare, it's more likely to save the patient than greedy insurers. The only thing insurers care about is their bottom line. Government, on the other hand, is there for the good of the people. You are a sheep who allies himself with the wolf.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

Trinity members should stay in the chitchat forums so they don't embarrass themselves....