Into the Night
Verified User
No court has authority to change the Constitution.
Now do you suppose the Founding Fathers envisioned
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No court has authority to change the Constitution.
in a 5-4 decision they "found" that the right of an individual to "keep and bear arms", as protected under the Second Amendment, is incorporated by the Fourteenth Amendment and is thereby enforceable against the states.
you won't find a single case prior to the 14th that said the 2nd amendment constrained a state. States all had much older constitutions dealing with these laws
Into the Night
Verified User
Irrelevant.
However, spouting nonsense on this board is not that process. Pretending that the founders didn't want the 2nd Amendment to mean what they wrote it to mean is absurd, if you want to change the 2nd Amendment then put forward the 28th Amendment, put up or shut up.
My bet is this amendment would fail, it would never get the support of 3/4 of the states if it even passed the 2/3rds of the Senate requirement.
Into the Night
Verified User
Denying the Constitution of the United States and all State constitutions won't help you.
It is unconstitutional to ban or limit any gun.
Into the Night
Verified User
No case needed. It is unconstitutional to ban or limit any gun.
Not according to the laws and constitutions of the federal and state governments. Check out the laws.
SmarterthanYou
rebel
just so I understand your viewpoint here, before that incorporation, the 2nd denied the federal government any power over the arms of the people, i.e. no federal gun control laws, right? And with the incorporation of the 2nd, now states are not allowed any gun control laws, right?
SmarterthanYou
rebel
are laws allowed to override the Constitution?
the founders did not intend the 2nd amendment to apply to the states at all - and it didn't apply to the states for over a 100 years.
The founders didn't incorporate our rights to the states, however the 14th Amendment did, thus the constitution itself does... This means that the rights I have as a citizen of the United States are also protected from the State's exercise of power now. Before that some states had state religions, for instance... they can't now.
Again, if you want this to change you need the 28th Amendment, not just saying stuff on this board. If you want to change this reality then you need to amend the constitution otherwise everything you say or do is just posturing so you can "feel" good.
not exactly. The 2nd was an empty text -they already had no power over the arms of the people, but people needed assurances, and we gave it to them
in hindsight, these bill of right assurances have done more harm than good - as they were used to slowly chip away at the concrete understand that federal powers were explicit.
if powers were so explicit, why did we need to list a few restrictions? and away our rights went
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even that is simplified. the 2nd amendment was not incorporated by a plain text understanding of what was intended back in the 1800's. unelected men in robes 100 years later decided this is what they meant
the absurd part is thinking the founders would ever agree with how we have incorporated the bill of rights.
like they would see all the 5-4 decisions and go - "yeah, this is how we planned it. the unelected judges get to decide on all the important stuff"
They don't override the Constitution. You are only referring to your interpretation of the Constitution which is not part of our legal doctrine. You don't get to determine the meaning the document. We have elected/appointed officials legally authorized to make those decisions. They obviously differ from your views which are contrary to history and accepted interpretations. Read some court decisions.
No states had violated the individual right to a level that they took up the cases until the "men in robes" decided to hear it 100 years later. It doesn't change what the Amendments state, nor the reality I presented to you. The constitution gives me a right to own and bear arms. Should you want that not to be true there is one way (well two, but the second is even more unlikely than the first) to get it done. Pass with 2/3 of the Senate the 28th Amendment either removing incorporation for the one right or just directly negating the 2nd Amendment, then get 3/4 of the states to agree (the other way I spoke of involves enough states getting together for a convention of the states to Amend (rewrite) the Constitution, and that has never been done).
NiftyNiblick
1960s Chick Magnet
True believer. Like a six year old.
"no proof needed. I will just repeat my bullshit over and over"
this is not true. plenty of challenges to state law were heard in the 100 plus years before the 14th was ratified - but no state court ever looked at the 2nd amendment because the law was well understood back then, and the federal courts understood it was not their role to intervene
I already posted an example in 1839. states used their own constitution to decide if the laws were just - not the 2nd amendment
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