Most Gazans didn't support Hamas attacking

Cypress said:
What's weird is that MAGA cultists do not believe in collective punishment and military retribution against Russian civilian populations, but they do support collective punishment and mass destruction of Palestian civilians.

It's almost like there is a racial/ethnic undertone to MAGA's bloodlust.
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Did Palestinians elect Hamas in free elections or didn't they? Your squealing isnt an argument
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Hamas has zero compunction to not use children as combatants. They do that regularly. Children from about 10 up can easily be part of their support group and even combatants. There's plenty of photographic evidence that's the case.
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Okay. But that's a completely separate point that offers no support whatsoever for the idea of most Gazans supporting what Hamas did.
 
BartenderElite said:
"Educated" sorta implies that there was some sort of scientific method involved in the conclusion.

So, it should be based on something....no?
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History indicates the Palestinians support "From the River to the Sea". A bigger question is "Why aren't the Islamic charities sending boats to collect Palestinian refugees?" Don't they give a shit about the supposed-innocent Gazans? Why was Egypt so reluctant to open their border?

Is it because they know the Palestinians in Gaza are batshit crazy?
 
christiefan915 said:
And Mussolini made the trains run on time. It's all about money with you MAGAs, grifting and corruption take a back seat to it.
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Lol! What does Mussolini or his trains have to do with anything?
Yeah, it IS about money. $700+ more a year because of Bidenflation we'd all have.
 
Doc Dutch said:
History indicates the Palestinians support "From the River to the Sea". A bigger question is "Why aren't the Islamic charities sending boats to collect Palestinian refugees?" Don't they give a shit about the supposed-innocent Gazans? Why was Egypt so reluctant to open their border?

Is it because they know the Palestinians in Gaza are batshit crazy?
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The other Arab countries don't want them. They're smarter than Western Europe where the refugees will likely end up and a good portion will become either criminals or terrorists...
 
T. A. Gardner said:
It can be a sound military strategy, but it usually is a poor political strategy. For Ukraine, they are highly dependent on being funded by other nations. Should they start retaliating on cities and civilians in Russia, funding would likely dry up and they'd lose. They know that, so they avoid hitting civilian targets. For the Russians they are under no such compunction so they conduct mass attacks on cites and civilians because they can.
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Ukraine already faced an onslaught of Russian massive attacks on civilians, and didn't cave, surrender, or back down.

The only ones I have heard screaming for Ukrainian surrender are MAGAs.


I am not buying the morality that it's okay to intentionally target civilians as long as you have military superiority over your enemy.
 
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Cypress said:
Ukraine already faced an onslaught of Russian massive attacks on civilians, and didn't cave, surrender, or back down.

The only ones I have heard screaming for Ukrainian surrender are MAGAs.


I am not buying the morality that it's okay to intentionally target civilians as long as you have military superiority over your enemy.
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I voted for Trump and I want us to support Ukraine. Russia must be stopped.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
The other Arab countries don't want them. They're smarter than Western Europe where the refugees will likely end up and a good portion will become either criminals or terrorists...
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Agreed the other Arabs don't want them. It depends upon the vetting and monitoring process.
 
Cypress said:
Ukraine already faced an onslaught of Russian massive attacks on civilians, and didn't cave, surrender, or back down.
The only ones I have heard screaming for Ukrainian surrender are MAGAs.
I am not buying the morality that it's okay to intentionally target civilians as long as you have military superiority over your enemy.
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Only because they've been propped up by the West to the tune of tens of billions in military equipment and cash. I'm not justifying the moral issue about targeting civilians either, just pointing out the military / strategic thinking that goes into a decision to target them.

My view on Ukraine is the country is about as morally fucked up as Russia, so there isn't some moral superiority there between the two. I also think that Ukraine isn't strategically important to Western Europe and the US. Throughout history, there have been, typically, military balance of power combinations where there are either two or three major players within a system.

Greece v. Persia
Rome v. Carthage
Axis v. Allied powers
US v USSR

Those are a few of the two-way match ups. Right now we're in a transition to US v China with Russia being a third player that could side either way. Of course, the US and Europe are doing everything possible it seems to push Russia into the Chinese camp. Most of the rest of Asia recognizes this and are moving to build up their military capacity to keep China from steamrollering over them while the US dawdles, hand wringing over Ukraine.

In the end, if Ukraine survives but is wrecked by Russia, we gain nothing from it while China gains a more willing ally in Russia. Western Europe will languish in inability to do anything complacent that the US will protect them. It's a recipe for disaster for Europe and the US politically.
 
Doc Dutch said:
Agreed the other Arabs don't want them. It depends upon the vetting and monitoring process.
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For much of Western Europe, and the Joke administration here in the US there won't be one. The Palestinians will pour in unvetted either quasi-legally or illegally and once in they'll be nearly impossible to remove.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
For much of Western Europe, and the Joke administration here in the US there won't be one. The Palestinians will pour in unvetted either quasi-legally or illegally and once in they'll be nearly impossible to remove.
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Disagreed on the vetting process since any President who allows that to happen becomes responsible for actions of the refugees.

That said, I consider this a Middle-Eastern and European problem since they're the ones who started it, never fixed it and, sometimes, made it worse. IMO, the US should support with supplies and diplomacy, but the actual refugees should stay on that side of the planet.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Only because they've been propped up by the West to the tune of tens of billions in military equipment and cash. I'm not justifying the moral issue about targeting civilians either, just pointing out the military / strategic thinking that goes into a decision to target them.

My view on Ukraine is the country is about as morally fucked up as Russia, so there isn't some moral superiority there between the two. I also think that Ukraine isn't strategically important to Western Europe and the US. Throughout history, there have been, typically, military balance of power combinations where there are either two or three major players within a system.

Greece v. Persia
Rome v. Carthage
Axis v. Allied powers
US v USSR

Those are a few of the two-way match ups. Right now we're in a transition to US v China with Russia being a third player that could side either way. Of course, the US and Europe are doing everything possible it seems to push Russia into the Chinese camp. Most of the rest of Asia recognizes this and are moving to build up their military capacity to keep China from steamrollering over them while the US dawdles, hand wringing over Ukraine.

In the end, if Ukraine survives but is wrecked by Russia, we gain nothing from it while China gains a more willing ally in Russia. Western Europe will languish in inability to do anything complacent that the US will protect them. It's a recipe for disaster for Europe and the US politically.
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it's not good strategy for Hamas to kill babies either, but they went ahead and did it

Sorry, but the fact that conservatives are so quick to descend into blood lust for Palestinian civilians, but not for Russian civilians definitely has a racial or ethnic edge to it. The aggressor State of Russia has brutally killed far more civilians than Hamas did.
 
Cypress said:
it's not good strategy for Hamas to kill babies either, but they went ahead and did it

Sorry, but the fact that conservatives are so quick to descend into blood lust for Palestinian civilians, but not for Russian civilians definitely has a racial or ethnic edge to it. The aggressor State of Russia has brutally killed far more civilians than Hamas did.
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Success in war isn't generally measured by a body count. War should not be an antiseptic, sterile exercise but dirty, horrific, and appalling. That way we won't take making war lightly and will be more reluctant to engage in it.
 
Cypress said:
it's not good strategy for Hamas to kill babies either, but they went ahead and did it

Sorry, but the fact that conservatives are so quick to descend into blood lust for Palestinian civilians, but not for Russian civilians definitely has a racial or ethnic edge to it. The aggressor State of Russia has brutally killed far more civilians than Hamas did.
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Agreed. This war exists because Iran wants it to exist. If Hamas wasn't constantly pounding Israel with rockets for years, much less the massacre on October 7th, the Palestinians could have spent the time building factories and better schools.

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