Most Gazans didn't support Hamas attacking

Nordberg said:
If you are under Trump's con, you believe everything he says. Trump lies like crazy, but if you believe them all, you are offended when people question him. Trump is a horrible person by any measure you can think of. But he apparently an excellent conman. If you are the sort of person who can be conned. He owns you and directs you like Svengali. We have many of them on this board.
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he's good on tariffs.

that ALONE makes him the best president in at least 50 years.
 
Cypress said:
I am a believer in the precision of language, and on second thought maybe prison camp doesn't seem quite right.

I had a great uncle sentenced to the Ukhtpechlag forced labor camp, and Gulag prison labor camps were quite different than Gaza.

I don't know what the right word for Gaza is because it's so unique. It is definitely a system that strips people of their dignity, humanity, and a substantial amount of their freedom.
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Now that the issue is front and center, the term 'Gaza' sums it up perfectly
 
guno said:
I remember in Norfolk Iranian sailors and one of their ships in port This was in 69'
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There were four "Ayatollah-class" destroyers still in service in the late 80s. I was temporarily deployed aboard two of them over a couple years; the USS Kidd and the USS Scott. It appears all four now belong to the Chinese. LOL

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidd-class_destroyer
The Kidd-class destroyers were a series of four guided-missile destroyers (DDGs) based on the Spruance class. In contrast to their predecessor's focus on anti-submarine warfare, the Kidds were designed as more advanced multipurpose ships with the addition of considerably enhanced anti-aircraft capabilities.[3] Originally ordered for the former Imperial Iranian Navy, the contracts were canceled when the 1979 Iranian Revolution began, and the ships were completed for the United States Navy. They were decommissioned in 1999 and sold to the Republic of China Navy as the Kee Lung class.
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USS_Kidd_%28DDG-993%29_returning_to_Norfolk_in_December_1987.JPEG
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Cypress said:
This is a situation where Israel can't wait 20 years for a peaceful two state solution to be found.

Based on what the barbarians of Hamas did, Israel would be negligent to not execute a military response.

I don't think a military response has to mean go in and just blow up everything. I'm not a military tactician, but I assume IDF could clear Gaza block by block, engage Hamas fighters where they are encountered, and round up people for interrogation for Intel on where Hamas hideouts are, where their weapons caches are, where their networks of active supporters are.
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I think they're going to face coordinated guerilla attacks when they do that.
 
domer76 said:
I don’t know. Do some homework.

But try not to pass blame from Israel to Egypt to deflect from Israel’s bad behavior.
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^^^
Silent as a clam on Iran's, Hamas' and Hezbollah's bad behavior since only hates the Jews, not the Islamic terrorists.
 
JesusAI said:
I guess if we don't laugh we'll cry.
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The Republic of China is Taiwan.....the "good" Chinese. LOL

Sale and reactivation
In 2001, the U.S. authorized the reactivation and sale of all four ships to Taiwan (Republic of China). All four have been transferred to the Republic of China Navy under the Kuang Hua VII program. They were sold for a total price of US$732 million with upgraded hardware, overhaul, activation, and training, and included a reduced missile loadout of 148 SM-2 Block IIIA and 32 RGM-84L Block II Harpoon anti-ship missiles.[15] The reactivation was done in Charleston, South Carolina, by VSE/BAV.[16]

Kee Lung-class destroyers
The first two ships, ex-Scott and ex-Callaghan, arrived at Su-ao, a military port in eastern Taiwan, in December 2005, and were named Kee Lung and Su Ao in a commissioning ceremony on 17 December 2005. Following the tradition of ship class naming, ROCN has referred to these vessels as Kee Lung-class destroyers, with the ships named after military ports in Taiwan. The remaining two units, ex-Kidd and ex-Chandler, were delivered in 2006, and named Tso Ying and Ma Kong, respectively.
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Althea said:
And billions in taxpayer dollars. The private sector never funds nuke plants.
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They might start if offered. Joint gov-private sector projects.

Nuclear plants are very cost effective. Problems in the past were due to lack of experience.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2015/05/what-does-nuclear-power-really-cost/
What is the economic cost of nuclear power? That turns out to be a very difficult question to answer.

The United States and other countries have plentiful experience building and operating nuclear power plants. Currently 438 nuclear reactors with a combined capacity of 379,000 megawatts generate more than 10% of the total electricity used worldwide.

The US has the largest fleet, with 99 reactors generating almost 20% of US electricity. France has the second-largest, with 58 reactors producing 77% of its electricity. The Chinese fleet of 27 reactors generates under 3% of its electricity.

Nevertheless, there is great uncertainty about the cost of building new plants. The existing fleet in the US and most developed countries is very old, dating back to a period of intense growth in the 1960s and 1970s. In the US, the most recent construction permit for an operating reactor was issued in 1978, although completion work on a couple of stalled projects and “uprates” – capital refurbishment that increases capacity – have occurred at a number of units.

New construction fell off in other developed countries, too. The few additions made since 1990 were mostly in Japan, Korea, Eastern Europe, Russia and China.

Since 2000, however, there has been renewed interest in constructing new nuclear capacity, partially due to the dramatic increase in fossil fuel prices before the financial crisis and also growing concern about CO2 emissions from fossil fuels. Unfortunately, it’s been difficult to know how much it costs to build new plants because of this lack of recent experience.

The table below shows an estimate by the US Energy Information Administration (EIA) of the future cost of electricity from new nuclear plants compared with the cost from new natural gas-fired generators and utility-scale solar photovoltaic (PV) units.


EIA

Among the three options shown, nuclear power is right in the middle, with total costs in 2012 of about $96 per megawatt hour (MWh), most of which involves capital construction costs. On the high end is solar power at $130 per MWh, and gas at the low end at $64 per MWh.

The estimates for the capital cost of nuclear – for plants entering service in 2019 – assume that units can be built without the disastrous delays and overruns that plagued the US industry in the past, and which have plagued some recent projects, too. And the nuclear estimate also doesn’t take into account the benefit of certain subsidies currently available for some new construction.
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Doc Dutch said:
It depends: Do you know the difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter? STY doesn't....or won't admit he does..which tells you something about him if true. LOL
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Terrorist tactics are often used by freedom fighters, because said fighters typically have little to lose.

On man's terrorist is another man's hero.

The U.S knows about terrorist tactics as much as Bin Laden did.

We just pay surrogates to do it.
 
Althea said:
Terrorist tactics are often used by freedom fighters, because said fighters typically have little to lose.

On man's terrorist is another man's hero.

The U.S knows about terrorist tactics as much as Bin Laden did.

We just pay surrogates to do it.
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That's STY's answer. You are both agreed on the maxim "one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist".

The true difference is who they are attacking and if they have the support of the local population. The Brits consider American Rangers* to be terrorists, but Americans themselves considered them heroes. The Rangers attacked military targets, not British families.

Groups that specifically target civilians are wrong to do so. This is Russia is doing in Ukraine and Hamas in Israel. Groups targeting military targets who have surrounded themselves with human shields have a right to target the military target and accept the collateral damage. More precise weaponry, such as the CIA's Ginzu Slicer, minimize civilian casualties. It appears that the IDF's plan to to take out the Hamas leadership. That's a good plan. Hopefully the CIA can help them take out Hamas with minimum collateral damage.


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*There were various groups of "rangers" on both sides, but I'm referencing "the Swamp Fox" rangers; Marian's Brigage. https://armyranger.com/american-revolution/
Francis Marion – ‘Swamp Fox’

Though titled Rangers by Washington and a grateful American people, Morgan’s Rangers were not, in essence, Rangers in the sense of the uniquely trained, motivated, and challenged soldier. When one considers those parameters, there truly was only one group of American revolutionaries who could be considered an excellent example of early American Ranger prowess. This highly successful group of Partisans was known as “Marion’s Brigade.”

Formed in 1780 as a result of the brutality of British General Cornwallis’ severe measures, this unit was commanded by Brigadier General Francis Marion, considered by many to be one of the boldest and most dashing figures of the American Revolution. Taking refuge in forests and swamps, for which he earned the appellation the “Swamp Fox” from his enemies, Marion’s brigade kept the British off-balance with quick movements that captured British troops, destroyed supplies, and disrupted lines of communications.
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Althea said:
I don't believe they are part of the U.N.?
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Sooooo...the UN doesn't condemn terrorists unless they are part of the UN?

Iran, Lebanon, Syria and Russia are all members of the UN. Why no condemnation against them for slaughtering civilians with gas, missiles and artillery?

https://www.un.org/en/about-us/member-states

BTW, where are all the boats from peace-loving Arab states to help evacuate innocent Palestinians out of the war zone?
 
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