Ignorance and the Bible

[Dutch Uncle]

If you used to be like me, what happened? Traumatic brain injury?

Typical white, male American atheist. LOL

 

[gmark77]

 

[Cypress]

If you used to be like me, what happened? Traumatic brain injury?

I never said anything about Mediterranean illiteracy. Only Galilee in the first century. Not Judah 600 years earlier. I also never said “Roman Empire”. You keep inserting superfluous bullshit.

Galilee is part of the Mediterranean, and on average should be expected to be about the same as the rest of the Roman Empire, which was largely rural.

You can't hold out Galilee as this utterly unique and wondrous land of illiterate morons and mouth breathing yokels. On average, if should be expected to be about the same as most of the Mediterranean world in literacy.

Paul was educated and wrote his stuff. Nobody knows who wrote the gospels. Again.

You haven't investigated this closely enough.

Early bishops the the late first and second centuries identified the authors of the gospels as evangelist Mark, the physician Luke, and the apostles Matthew and John.

Maybe they were wrong. But falling back on the "everybody's lying!" argument is not very convincing.

No one can prove anything about the authors.
But we're not talking about proof are we? Proof is only achievable in mathematics.

What we can do is infer based on sound logic and reasoning.

The only thing you know about Pappias is some confusing bullshit written about him in the 4th century.

“The story is….” Yep, it sure is.

The fact you had to rapidly Google this means you did not have a prior background on the scholarship of New Testament authorship.

Is that your standard? I don't think it is. I think you selectively apply that standard based on an agenda. We don't have any surviving accounts of Alexander the Great until four centuries after his death.

Pappias lived in the first century.

You're dangerously close to crossing the line into arguing "everybody is lying and confused!"
That's not a strong or convincing argument.

 

[gmark77]

You're dangerously close to crossing the line into arguing "everybody is lying and confused!"
That's not a strong or convincing argument.

Never stray very far from the strawman.

 

[EdwinA]

Another 'sophisticate' just citing what it likes to hear, and only proves again he's never read the NT. Get lost, troll, you're just too stupid for this stuff.

 

[gmark77]

Even if you are a teen, g...act like it.

Does it hurt to have your rhetorical behind handed to you every day by someone so young as I?

 

[gmark77]

Another 'sophisticate' just citing what it likes to hear, and only proves again he's never read the NT. Get lost, troll, you're just too stupid for this stuff.

Maybe you can clarify the contradictions?

 

[EdwinA]

Nobody knows who wrote the gospels.

It was clearly written by very well educated Jews, and in Like's case mentored by a very well educated Jew. You really are too stupid for this sort of stuff. Stick to rooting for mass baby murders and sexually mutilating the survivors like the rest of your peer group. You don't know near enough for this type of discussion.

 

[EdwinA]

Maybe you can clarify the contradictions?

Find one first.

 

[Ross Dolan]

Does it hurt to have your rhetorical behind handed to you every day by someone so young as I?

You are not handing anything to anyone...but I guess as immature as you are, it must seem so.

We get a laugh out of you...so you are even a useful idiot for us.

 

[gmark77]

Ehrman is citing sources that are 20 years old.

JUSTIFICATION-O-MATIC!

Study confirms widespread literacy in biblical-period kingdom of Judah

18 texts written by 12 people at a time well distant from the point of discussion (Roman Palestine)?

I am skeptical.

Why don't you find some data for Roman Palestine about 1CE?

 

[gmark77]

We get a laugh out of you.

ALL of you?

Just wait until you get some education and you see what I've done to your discussion points! LOLOLOL.

 

[gmark77]

You can't hold out Galilee as this utterly unique and wondrous land of illiterate morons and mouth breathing yokels.

God damn, Cy. Domer didn't call them that.

Why do you spend so much time coming up with highly insulting language for Christians and Jews and then suggesting other people said it?

What is your game here?


Just stop insulting Christians and Jews, dude.

 

[Cypress]

1 to 3 people out of a hundred is all it takes to write graffiti over hundreds of years.

3000 people means up to 90 asshole writing graffiti. Probably the bosses or engineers. Who'd report them? Jus' sayin'. LOL

Good point.

Right, merchants, skilled laborers, etc.

When I see graffiti in Los Angeles it seems like more than five people doing it.

Once graffiti takes hold it becomes a cultural phenomena. It catches on with people.

I don't think Roman senators, priests, or aristocrats were writing pornographic graffiti in the alleys of Pompei.

I'm starting to put more stock in the estimates that 10 to 20 percent of people in the Roman Empire were literate, rather than the highly pessimistic one to three percent estimate.

I can't be hyper-skeptical of the New Testament authors. If seems possible a Pharisee, a physician, a customs official, a secretary could write in simple Koine Greek or vernacular Aramaic.

People who read ancient Greek tell me the New Testament gospels are written in simple and basic Koine Greek, they are not literary or sophisticated in style.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

When I see graffiti in Los Angeles it seems like more than five people doing it.

Once graffiti takes hold it becomes a cultural phenomena. It catches on with people.

I don't think Roman senators, priests, or aristocrats were writing pornographic graffiti in the alleys of Pompei.

I'm starting to put more stock in the estimates that 10 to 20 percent of people in the Roman Empire were literate, rather than the highly pessimistic one to three percent estimate.

I can't be hyper-skeptical of the New Testament authors. If seems possible a Pharisee, a physician, a customs official, a secretary could write in simple Koine Greek or vernacular Aramaic.

People who read ancient Greek tell me the New Testament gospels are written in simple and basic Koine Greek, they are not literary or sophisticated in style.

Agreed, but the US has almost an 80% literacy rate, about 4 out of 5 versus 3 out of 100.

Literacy Rate in the US 2025 | By Year & State Stats

Literacy Rate in the US 2025 Understanding the current state of literacy in America remains one of the most pressing educational challenges facing our nation today. Recent data from the National Center for Education Statistics (NCES) reveals concerning trends about…

www.theglobalstatistics.com

 

[Margot]

YES IT HAS BEEN ASKED...SEVERAL TIMES.

NOT ANSWERED.

SEE MY POSTS #1194 & 1216.

Never really answered...just avoided or given short-shrift...with YOU deciding what a Christian is.

I am saying your "beliefs" on this issue are merely BLIND GUESSES about the REALITY of existence.

Tell me how you know the stuff you spout as being the truth rather than a guess.

I am saying your "faith" is merely your insistence that your blind guesses are correct.

Tell me how you know the "faith" you have in your blind guesses are "the truth."

Actually discuss the issue rather than do what the atheists do in avoidance.

Atheists can't comprehend the Holy Spirit! So they ASSUME Blind Faith, because they are Spiritually blind and have no Faith!

 

[Margot]

Good point.

Right, merchants, skilled laborers, etc.

When I see graffiti in Los Angeles it seems like more than five people doing it.

Once graffiti takes hold it becomes a cultural phenomena. It catches on with people.

I don't think Roman senators, priests, or aristocrats were writing pornographic graffiti in the alleys of Pompei.

I'm starting to put more stock in the estimates that 10 to 20 percent of people in the Roman Empire were literate, rather than the highly pessimistic one to three percent estimate.

I can't be hyper-skeptical of the New Testament authors. If seems possible a Pharisee, a physician, a customs official, a secretary could write in simple Koine Greek or vernacular Aramaic.

People who read ancient Greek tell me the New Testament gospels are written in simple and basic Koine Greek, they are not literary or sophisticated in style.

"The words of the Prophets are written on the Subway walls
Tenement Halls"

 

[Cypress]

Agreed, but the US has almost an 80% literacy rate, about 4 out of 5 versus 3 out of 100.

Literacy Rate in the US 2025 | By Year & State Stats

Literacy Rate in the US 2025 Understanding the current state of literacy in America remains one of the most pressing educational challenges facing our nation today. Recent data from the National Center for Education Statistics (NCES) reveals concerning trends about…

www.theglobalstatistics.com

No doubt modern literacy rates totally exceed the ancient world.

Paul seems to have dictated some of his letters to his assistants. There were clearly literate people around him he could call on for assistance.

I don't see why the Apostle John, who probably was illiterate, couldn't have dictated his testimony to people who could write. Not saying that's how it happened, but it's in a realm of possibility.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

No doubt modern literacy rates totally exceed the ancient world.

Paul seems to have dictated some of his letters to his assistants. There were clearly literate people around him he could call on for assistance.

I don't see why the Apostle John, who probably was illiterate, couldn't have dictated his testimony to people who could write. Not saying that's how it happened, but it's in a realm of possibility.

As a former tax collector, I have no doubt Paul had education.

 

[Cypress]

"The words of the Prophets are written on the Subway walls
Tenement Halls"

I always liked the band Rush.