Ignorance and the Bible

Can't tax people if the King doesn't know what they have. :)

In his now-classic study of ancient literacy, William Harris gave compelling reasons for thinking that at the best of times in antiquity only 10% or so of the population was able to read [Ancient Literacy; Harvard University Press, 1989]. By far the highest portion of readers was located in urban settings. Widespread literacy like that enjoyed throughout modern societies requires certain cultural and historical forces to enact policies of near universal, or at least extensive, education of the masses. Prior to the industrial revolution, such a thing was neither imagined nor desired. As Meir Bar Ilan notes: “literacy does not emerge in a vacuum but rather from social and historical circumstances.”

Moreover, far fewer people in antiquity could compose a writing than could read, as shown by the investigations of Raffaella Cribiore, who stresses that reading and composition were taught as two different skills and at different points of the ancient curriculum. Learning even the basics of reading was a slow and arduous process, typically taking some three years and involving repeating “endless drills” over “long hours.” “In sum, a student became accustomed to an incessant gymnastics of the mind.” These kinds of “gymnastics” obviously required extensive leisure and money, neither of which could be afforded by any but the wealthy classes.
10 to 20 percent literacy in the Roman Empire seems in the right ballpark.

One to three percent literacy seems really pessimistic, unless you just limit it to people who could read and write in a high literary style; aka people who could comfortably read and discuss Virgil or Cicero.

Assuming the 2nd century Church bishops are correct about the authors of the NT, I don't think it strains credulity to think a Pharisee, a physician, a customs official, a secretary could write in basic Greek or Aramaic.

The only way I can reasonably infer a fisherman like John was involved in the gospel of John is if he dictated his testimony to people who could write.
 
This thread's title:

"Ignorance and the Bible"​


I haven't called Christians morons. There weren't any Christians in 6th century BCE (the time period the study looked at), nor were there any Christians in Galilee during Jesus' life
Arguing with minors is a waste of time, IMHO.
 
It was clearly written by very well educated Jews, and in Like's case mentored by a very well educated Jew. You really are too stupid for this sort of stuff. Stick to rooting for mass baby murders and sexually mutilating the survivors like the rest of your peer group. You don't know near enough for this type of discussion.
Well then, it certainly didn’t include any of the disciples, did it? Not Luke, nor Mark, nor Matthew, nor John. Just exactly what I’ve been saying.

Thanks for the validation, Jethro.
 
You're insinuating literacy dropped from 600 BCE to the first century AD, even though in the intervening years the biblical lands of Israel had been highly Hellenized and Romanized with classical Greek and Roman culture?
Literacy in the US has dropped, despite advancing years. There is NO BASIS to conclude literacy would improve just because 600 BCE was much earlier than 1st century. Galilee was not highly Hellenized nor Romanized.
 
It doesn't bother me. This is a message board, it would get boring real fast if we agreed on everything.
It bothers you greatly when someone disagrees with you. You become unhinged when someone corrects you or otherwise points out an error that you made.

It wasn't written by God. It wasn't even dictated by God.
Of course, this is merely an extension of what you believe. Other people believe differently.

Even if humans are supposedly spiritually inspired, the Christian Bible is still a collection of nearly 70 books written, compiled, and edited by hundreds of authors, each written with different perspectives, different literary genres, even in different languages.
Does any of that preclude belief that God guided the writing in every case?

Pick up any science journal, and you will see elite scientists contradicting each other.
Irrelevant. What humans have to say is immaterial. Pick up any science textbook and you will see that science is always consistent everywhere.

The most famous example might be Niels Bohr contradicting Einstein.
There was no contradiction of science there either. I'm certain that you haven't the vaguest idea what they were discussing.

Even the great saint Augustine wrote 1,700 years ago that the Bible would have to be periodically re-interpreted as human knowledge increased.
Even the great "Golden Mouthed Preacher" John Chrysostom (Archbishop of Constantinople) emphasized the literal and historical meaning of Scripture over allegorical or mystical readings ... forever.
 
Find one first.
I feel sorry for you and what is about to befall. Be strong.

Atheists can't comprehend the Holy Spirit! So they ASSUME Blind Faith, because they are Spiritually blind and have no Faith!
Sure. That's kind of by definition.

When you qualify "blind" faith, that is a religious qualification, not an atheist's term. An atheist will simply say that you have a faith, i.e. nothing is added by calling it "blind". Religious people, however, use the qualifier "blind" to distinguish their own faiths, which they consider to be truth, from other faiths which are "blind" because they aren't true.

An atheist doesn't assign a truth value to religious faiths; he simply doesn't have them. Here, let me show you:

1. I am an atheist
2. You have a faith
3. Your faith might be true

Let me know if you have any questions.
 
The two birth stories in Luke and Matthew.

The two passion narratives in Mark and Luke.

Those are for starters.

False. A rudimentary knowledge of Jewish culture and theology blows that idiot claim out of the water. You aren't even remotely informed enough to discuss it.

The Peanut Gallery with a genuine interest in Jewish history at the time can get a copy of this book:


It's extremely footnoted, and uses Jewish sources entirely.
 
Literacy in the US has dropped, despite advancing years. There is NO BASIS to conclude literacy would improve just because 600 BCE was much earlier than 1st century. Galilee was not highly Hellenized nor Romanized.

And you are a poster child for that fact. You can't tell the difference between ranting polemics and historical fact.
 
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