If God were real, you wouldn’t need a book

[James]

I would dearly love to meet a person who, without ever hearing of the Bible or any details of Christianity, who could come up with the concepts behind Christianity without reliance on the Bible or Christian writings. Just from "first principles".

Any religion for that matter.

One has to go back. I suppose as far back as when humanity crept out the primordial swamp in the form of tetrapods, and their first excursions into a totally new, almost unhabitual and hostile environment that they overcame, hence us now.

The reasons these, our most distant ancestors, survived was becos they followed the Natural law that drove them forward to evolve...the primary function of existence on this planet.

There is no other law (religion) down here other than this law. Odd that most in this current world of massive access to info still can't see basic observable truths . Really strange imo

 

[Monad Portal]

One has to go back. I suppose as far back as when humanity crept out the primordial swamp in the form of tetrapods, and their first excursions into a totally new, almost unhabitual and hostile environment that they overcame, hence us now.

The reasons these, our most distant ancestors, survived was becos they followed the Natural law that drove them forward to evolve...the primary function of existence on this planet.

There is no other law (religion) down here other than this law. Odd that most in this current world of massive access to info still can't see basic observable truths . Really strange imo

but what matters about religion is the moral code and how it engenders cooperation.

human cooperation is the reasons for our massive success as a species.

of course there are dark forces dehumanizing humans at this moment, telling us that shortcuts and evil and fraud and murder are best, but those are evil demonic forces, bent on dehumanization and demoralization.

 

[ZenMode]

What content?

The content/discussion you're continually trying to avoid.

 

[ZenMode]

I would dearly love to meet a person who, without ever hearing of the Bible or any details of Christianity, who could come up with the concepts behind Christianity without reliance on the Bible or Christian writings. Just from "first principles".

Any religion for that matter.

It wouldn't happen because, again, there's no evidence for the Christian god or the Muslim God or the Hindu God or the Mormon god TODAY.

Very, very early on I said that if all Bibles were wiped off the face of the Earth and all memories of Christianity erased from the minds of every human, Christianity would never recreate itself. How would it?

 

[ZenMode]

but what matters about religion is the moral code and how it engenders cooperation.

What moral code? There's no inherent moral code in religion, which is why what is/isn't moral isn't even consistent in the Bible.

It's Devine preference, not an objective, inherent morality.

On a side note, what's moral about allowing 5 million children, under the age of 5, die every year?

 

[Cypress]

That's exactly right, Clanker!

So in your mind, the strengths of the gravitational and electrical fields didn't decrease in strength according to an inverse square relationship until Newton and Coulomb wrote down inverse square equations and published them.

​

 

[Dutch Uncle]

What moral code? There's no inherent moral code in religion, which is why what is/isn't moral isn't even consistent in the Bible.

It's Devine preference, not an objective, inherent morality.

On a side note, what's moral about allowing 5 million children, under the age of 5, die every year?

The Bible does have moral codes, but agreed there is a clear difference between the morality of the OT vs. the NT.

On JPP, all the MAGA morons favor the OT morality and rarely, if ever, speak of the NT morality such as "Love thy neighbor" and "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you". This is a clue that MAGAts aren't Christian and only pay lip-service to Jesus Christ. In short, they are all evil, mammon-worshiping followers of the Dark Lord. Sad.

 

[Monad Portal]

What moral code? There's no inherent moral code in religion, which is why what is/isn't moral isn't even consistent in the Bible.

It's Devine preference, not an objective, inherent morality.

On a side note, what's moral about allowing 5 million children, under the age of 5, die every year?

in Christianity it's the golden rule.

but the ten commandments are decent. and Muslims at least treat their co tribe members well.

the eatern principles of ahimsa are good.

 

[Monad Portal]

it's usually the morality that really offends atheists, not the miraculous assertions.

 

[ZenMode]

in Christianity it's the golden rule.

Well, that's the one Christians often pick...while ignoring all of the other immoral behavior pushed in the Bible.

but the ten commandments are decent. and Muslims at least treat their co tribe members well.

3 of the 10 are God saying "Look at me". Child abuse is ignored in the 10 commandments as is slavery. I could rewrite the 10 Commandments in about 5 minutes and do a better job than the Christian God.

the eatern principles of ahimsa are good.

 

[Monad Portal]

Well, that's the one Christians often pick...while ignoring all of the other immoral behavior pushed in the Bible.

yes. I cherry pick the good parts.

3 of the 10 are God saying "Look at me". Child abuse is ignored in the 10 commandments as is slavery. I could rewrite the 10 Commandments in about 5 minutes and do a better job than the Christian God.

but the three you like are good right?

and falling short of an ideal doesn't mean the ideal is wrong.

 

[gfm7175]

It wouldn't happen because, again, there's no evidence for the Christian god or the Muslim God or the Hindu God or the Mormon god TODAY.

You've been presented with all sorts of evidence. When you say that there is "no evidence", you are simply being dishonest.

Very, very early on I said that if all Bibles were wiped off the face of the Earth and all memories of Christianity erased from the minds of every human, Christianity would never recreate itself. How would it?

Through God.

 

[ZenMode]

yes. I cherry pick the good parts.

but the three you like are good right?

and falling short of an ideal doesn't mean the ideal is wrong.

Why would the all-knowing, all-moral creator of the universe leave obvious immoral behavior off of his master list?

 

[ZenMode]

Through God.

Through God? What does that even mean? What, is he going to take time away from planting fossils all over the world, to confuse people, to suddenly make an appearance now, when he hasn't shown himself in 2000+ years?

 

[gfm7175]

Well, that's the one Christians often pick...while ignoring all of the other immoral behavior pushed in the Bible.

What's "being ignored", exactly?

3 of the 10 are God saying "Look at me".

???

Child abuse is ignored in the 10 commandments

The 10 commandments are foundational, not exhaustive.

Child abuse CAN be understood as a relation to the 5th and 6th commandments, though. (honor father/mother, do not murder)

as is slavery.

Presentism.

I could rewrite the 10 Commandments in about 5 minutes and do a better job than the Christian God.

^^^ ZenMode thinks he's greater than God.

 

[Cypress]

I could rewrite the 10 Commandments in about 5 minutes and do a better job than the Christian God.

Anything you could write about universal love, universal charity, mercy, kindness, are things you smuggled in from Christianity. There is no canonical atheist code of ethics.

From a purely scientific Darwinian perspective there is no benefit from practicing love, kindness, charity outside your family, tribe, or social group. Ensuring the survival and propagation of your genetic information is all that science requires.

What you think would write about social justice, innate human value, humility, non-violence, non-judgementalism, universal love and charity are things you plucked and smuggled in from the New testament, the Sermon on the Mount, and the rest of Christian ethical thought that has developed for millennia.

Anyone who claims any of these values just come easily and naturally to humans are kidding themselves.

 

[ZenMode]

What's "being ignored", exactly?

Killing your neighbor for working on the Sabbath. Killing your wife if she's not a virgin on your wedding night, etc.

???

Self explanitory

The 10 commandments are foundational, not exhaustive.

Child abuse CAN be understood as a relation to the 5th and 6th commandments, though. (honor father/mother, do not murder)

Nope. There are things that are obviously immoral that weren't included on a list from the being that, according to Christians, is THE single source for all that is moral.

Presentism.

^^^ ZenMode thinks he's greater than God.

It's not my fault that I could write a better 10 commandments today.

 

[ZenMode]

Anything you could write about universal love, universal charity, mercy, kindness, are things you smuggled in from Christianity. There is no canonical atheist code of ethics.

From a purely scientific Darwinian perspective there is no benefit from practicing love, kindness, charity outside your family, tribe, or social group. Ensuring the survival and propagation of your genetic information is all that science requires.

What you think would write about social justice, innate human value, humility, non-violence, non-judgementalism, universal love and charity are things you plucked and smuggled in from the New testament, the Sermon on the Mount, and the rest of Christian ethical thought that has developed for millennia.

Anyone who claims any of these values just come easily and naturally to humans are kidding themselves.

Christians aren't the first or only people to try to determine what is/isn't moral and the Bible, as I referenced multiple times, not only misses obvious immoral behavior on its Top 10 list, but openly endorses immoral behavior.

 

[Cypress]

Christians aren't the first or only people to try to determine what is/isn't moral and the Bible, as I referenced multiple times, not only misses obvious immoral behavior on its Top 10 list, but openly endorses immoral behavior.

The fact is you grew up in a western civilization with a Christian Zeigeist. You didn't grow up in a Hindu civilization.

The ethics you think you can dream up on your own are actually values you unwittingly smuggled in from the New Testament and Christianty.

There is no ancient literature that really directly compares to the Bible in terms of social justice, universal love, and elevating the poor, the oppressed, the diseased.

Even the esteemed atheist religious scholar Bart Ehrman has noted this.

 

[Monad Portal]

Why would the all-knowing, all-moral creator of the universe leave obvious immoral behavior off of his master list?

Not lying and not killing covers about everything