If God were real, you wouldn’t need a book

[Monad Portal]

No, animals do not have a universal moral obligation or law.
Altruism and mutually advantageous cooperation virtually always is limited to the family, to the pack, the troop, the pride, the tribe, to the social group.

Altruism and social cooperation in the family and in the pack are baked into Darwinian evolution, is based on the idea of reciprocity, and is not mysterious scientifically at all.

But you have never seen a lion pride bring food to a rival pride. You've never seen chimpanzees collect bananas to graciously donate to a rival chimp troop.

Humans almost uniquely can universalize the idea of self sacrifice for the welfare of others, including towards complete strangers, rivals, even enemies. It's possible there are isolated cases of a few of the higher sentient mammals practicing something similar this, like dolphins or elephants.

The simple fact is you know very clearly and very intuitively that the concept of morality does not apply to animals. When a male deer forcibly copulates with a female deer you never would call it rape. When a male lion kills the cubs of a rival male you would never call it murder.

its basically the same.

we don't need your abusive churches, so fuck off now.

morality is rational, we got it covered, Satan worshiper

 

[IBDaMann]

it can be overkill sometimes.

It's not like He flooded the earth or anything.

so why do you think its all this gay shit then?

He just doesn't think that everything is fascism, that's all.

 

[Monad Portal]

It's not like He flooded the earth or anything.

oh but he did, he did dumb noahide.

He just doesn't think that everything is fascism, that's all.

dispensationalists use this rainbow shit to pervert the whole faith.

dispensationalists are also fine with transing children.

see Erika Kirk and Romanian Angels.

 

[Cypress]

morality is rational!!!

There is nothing rational about what Oskar Schindler, Giorgio Perlasca, Alexei Navalny, Nelson Mandela, or Harriet Tubman did.

From a scientific Darwinian perspective, their overarching duty was to maintain and preserve their genetic information.

 

[Monad Portal]

There is nothing rational about what Oskar Schindler, Giorgio Perlasca, Alexei Navalny, Nelson Mandela, or Harriet Tubman did.

From a scientific Darwinian perspective, their overarching duty was to maintain and preserve their genetic information.

building trusting relationships with empathy and reciprocity is very rational.

you're just a luciferian genocider and love war.

 

[gfm7175]

Link?

Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 1 - King James Version

Now these are the names of the children of Israel, which came into Egypt; every man and his household came with Jacob. Reuben, Simeon, Levi, and Judah, Issachar, Zebulun, and Benjamin, Dan, and Naphtali, Gad, and Asher. And all the souls that came out of the loins of Jacob were seventy souls...

www.biblegateway.com

The final verse (verse 22) is where Pharaoh gives the order. The rest of chapter 1 is provided for context.

So, you, as a parent, give your kids a "number of opportunities" to listen to you... then you kill 'em?

Stop being stupid. I would give them a number of opportunities to listen (and avoid punishment), but if they still didn't listen, then they would get punished (maybe a time out, maybe a spanking, maybe a temporary loss of privilege, etc).

But back to what you were talking about, the Egyptians were killing the firstborn boys of the Israelites, so as a "punishment", the Egyptian firstborn boys were likewise killed. They could've avoided that "punishment" by releasing the Israelite slaves as they were commanded to do. They could've also avoided that punishment by applying lamb blood above their doors.

 

[Cypress]

You provided a list of things you don't understand how they happened and then explained them via God.

So you still refuse to explain how a mathematically rational and lawfully organized universe could be caused by the physically inanimate and irrational.

I don't blame you for studiously avoiding explaining and defending your world view.

Leave the God of Abraham out of the equation. I mentioned nothing about the Jewish god. All I logically inferred is that the best explanatory cause for the rational and lawfully organized is a rational agency, entity, or force. The simple logic here is that we never see the rational come from the irrational, or organization and order coming from nothing.

The least rational explanation would be your worldview: the mathematically rational and lawfully organized universe could be caused by the physically inanimate and irrational.

That makes no sense, and that is obviously why you are avoiding explaining how you could infer the physically inanimate is the cause.

 

[ZenMode]

God has not vanished, Void.

Yes he has.

God does not rule by compulsion, Void. That's Satan's council.

I'm not saying he does. I'm saying he can make himself known to me anytime HE wants to.

You cannot make evidence just disappear, Void.

I don't need to make insufficient evidence disappear.

Why?

It would be an actual miracle, not the pretend ones Christians believe in today.

 

[Into the Night]

No, animals do not have a universal moral obligation or law.

They certainly do. To procreate and survive.

Altruism and mutually advantageous cooperation virtually always is limited to the family, to the pack, the troop, the pride, the tribe, to the social group.

If birds suddenly fly off, other animals are wary or even start to run in the direction of the birds.
If a deer suddenly starts running, other animals will run too.
Termite mounds are closed communities consisting of thousands of members. If a breach occurs, soldier terminate will sacrifice themselves to save the workers closing the mound again. They will never return to the mound. Alligators will walk for miles to find a mate. The female will protect her eggs viciously, yet treat the young with an amazing tenderness. Fiddler crabs announce their presence to each other using outsized claw waving, since their vision is so poor. Squirrels will help each other find and obtain food. Both dogs and cats are good pets, showing a faithful human relationship, particularly dogs.

Altruism and social cooperation in the family and in the pack are baked into Darwinian evolution, is based on the idea of reciprocity, and is not mysterious scientifically at all.

Darwin did not create the Theory of Evolution. The Greeks did.

But you have never seen a lion pride bring food to a rival pride.

All cats are loners, except for lions. They are the only cat that operates as a team.

You've never seen chimpanzees collect bananas to graciously donate to a rival chimp troop.

Chimps don't even donate bananas to their own troop. They all get their own bananas, even the young.

Humans almost uniquely can universalize the idea of self sacrifice for the welfare of others, including towards complete strangers, rivals, even enemies. It's possible there are isolated cases of a few of the higher sentient mammals practicing something similar this, like dolphins or elephants.

You really should get out more, ya dumb city kid.

The simple fact is you know very clearly and intuitively that the concept of morality does not apply to animals.

Yes it does.

When a male deer forcibly copulates with a female deer you never would call it rape.

They can't forcibly copulate with a female deer. The female lets them.

When a male lion kills the cubs of a rival you would never call it murder.

They don't kill the cubs of a rival.

 

[Into the Night]

So you still refuse to explain how a mathematically rational and lawfully organized universe could be caused by the physically inanimate and irrational.

Mathematics is not the Universe. The Universe is unorganized.

I don't blame you for studiously avoiding explaining and defending your world view.

He already has, moron.

Leave the God of Abraham out of the equation. I mentioned nothing about the Jewish god. All I logically inferred is that the best explanatory cause for the rational and lawfully organized is a rational agency, entity, or force. The simple logic here is that we never see the rational come from the irrational, or organization and order coming from nothing.

Buzzword fallacies.

The least rational explanation would be your worldview:

He is not discussing mathematics, Clanker.

the mathematically rational and lawfully organized universe could be caused by the physically inanimate and irrational.

He is not discussing mathematics.

That makes no sense, and that is obviously why you are avoiding explaining how you could infer the physically inanimate is the cause.

Random words. No apparent coherency. Buzzword fallacies.

 

[Into the Night]

Yes he has.

Nope. He is still there, and still has full control over his creation.

I'm not saying he does.

Lie.

I'm saying he can make himself known to me anytime HE wants to.

He already did.

I don't need to make insufficient evidence disappear.

You cannot make any evidence just disappear, Void. Evidence is not a quantity.

It would be an actual miracle, not the pretend ones Christians believe in today.

Why would be a miracle?
Do you want to worship your pool guy?

 

[Into the Night]

they're just stuck on stupid like you.

You don't think that simple sunshine kills bacteria and destroys viruses??

 

[Monad Portal]

Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 1 - King James Version

Now these are the names of the children of Israel, which came into Egypt; every man and his household came with Jacob. Reuben, Simeon, Levi, and Judah, Issachar, Zebulun, and Benjamin, Dan, and Naphtali, Gad, and Asher. And all the souls that came out of the loins of Jacob were seventy souls...

www.biblegateway.com

The final verse (verse 22) is where Pharaoh gives the order. The rest of chapter 1 is provided for context.

Stop being stupid. I would give them a number of opportunities to listen (and avoid punishment), but if they still didn't listen, then they would get punished (maybe a time out, maybe a spanking, maybe a temporary loss of privilege, etc).

But back to what you were talking about, the Egyptians were killing the firstborn boys of the Israelites, so as a "punishment", the Egyptian firstborn boys were likewise killed. They could've avoided that "punishment" by releasing the Israelite slaves as they were commanded to do. They could've also avoided that punishment by applying lamb blood above their doors.

No, animals do not have a universal moral obligation or law.
Altruism and mutually advantageous cooperation virtually always is limited to the family, to the pack, the troop, the pride, the tribe, to the social group.

Altruism and social cooperation in the family and in the pack are baked into Darwinian evolution, is based on the idea of reciprocity, and is not mysterious scientifically at all.

But you have never seen a lion pride bring food to a rival pride. You've never seen chimpanzees collect bananas to graciously donate to a rival chimp troop.

Humans almost uniquely can universalize the idea of self sacrifice for the welfare of others, including towards complete strangers, rivals, even enemies. It's possible there are isolated cases of a few of the higher sentient mammals practicing something similar this, like dolphins or elephants.

The simple fact is you know very clearly and very intuitively that the concept of morality does not apply to animals. When a male deer forcibly copulates with a female deer you never would call it rape. When a male lion kills the cubs of a rival male you would never call it murder.

it virtually the same. we have just taken it a little further.

you're dumber than a box of shit bricks.

 

[ZenMode]

So you still refuse to explain how a mathematically rational and lawfully organized universe could be caused by the physically inanimate and irrational.

I don't, because I'm fine saying "I don't know" and not invoking extraterrestrial beings to explain it.

I don't blame you for studiously avoiding explaining and defending your world view.

Leave the God of Abraham out of the equation. I mentioned nothing about the Jewish god. All I logically inferred is that the best explanatory cause for the rational and lawfully organized is a rational agency, entity, or force. The simple logic here is that we never see the rational come from the irrational, or organization and order coming from nothing.

The least rational explanation would be your worldview: the mathematically rational and lawfully organized universe could be caused by the physically inanimate and irrational.

That makes no sense, and that is obviously why you are avoiding explaining how you could infer the physically inanimate is the cause.

My view is that we can not be able to explain things without invoking gods. You can't explain your list, most of which is opinion anyway. Ok. Why do you have to? Are the only two options "Science needs to explain it all right now" or "God did it"?

The exactly the same approach of ancient man when they couldn't explain things. Hopefully we've evolved from that.

 

[Into the Night]

It wasn't known then.

Rain wasn't known then??

As long as you ignore the fact that either one of us could improve it with no effort.

Improve what?

Let's take the 10 Commandments.

Okay.

Maybe God could not have 30% of them about himself and have one that said "Don't rape people" or "Don't sexually assault or abuse children" or "Don't enslave people".

Thou shalt not commit adultery.
What about that confuses you?

As far as slavery, that's just a presentism fallacy.

The Jews practiced 'debt slavery'. In other words, you were enslaved to pay off a debt, and once the debt was paid in equivalent work, the slave was set free. Abuse of slaves was the same as the abuse of any man.

The Bible sounds nothing like the direction, instruction and insight of a wise, all-knowing being and everything like the ramblings of uneducated, Iron Age men.

It certainly does, but you reject the message.

He's described as wrathful in his own book.

Only to those that fight against Him.

He's not psychotic?

Nope.

Have you heard of, among other things, the Passover?

Yup. That curse was given by Pharoh.

Yes, based on evidence.

Yet you discard evidence, hoping that you can make it magickally disappear.

 

[ZenMode]

Nope. He is still there, and still has full control over his creation.

.....He said as someone who already believes in him.

Lie.

Nope

He already did.

Nope.

You cannot make any evidence just disappear, Void. Evidence is not a quantity.

Evidence is either sufficient to convince you or it isn't. Many years ago, while playing with my kids at the park by our house, we found a colored egg in a bush, likely a leftover from an Easter egg hunt. That egg is evidence for the Easter Bunny, right? I mean, hiding eggs is the Easter Bunny's M.O. Should I believe in the Easter Bunny, now?

Why would be a miracle?

Ignored: playing dumb.

Do you want to worship your pool guy?

Ignored: playing dumb.

 

[Into the Night]

"Believe"? That sounds like faith.

Quite right. Void's religion is based on faith and nothing else. He is, however, trying to PROVE his religion true. He's a fundamentalist.

Second, I do don't buy your assumption that that science disproves God

Science has no proofs. Attempting to prove a negative is a fallacy. Science is completely atheistic.

and supposedly sequester him to tiny, shrinking gaps.

Random words ignored.

Plenty of people think science points to God.

Science is completely atheistic.

Galileo, Newton, Kepler, Maxwell, Francis Collins were certain that lawful design pointed to a law-giver.

They did, but that is not science.

Lastly, my entire presentation was based on good abductive logical reasoning;

Fallacies are not logical reasoning. It is a logical error.

inference to the best explanation. A mathematically rational, lawfully organized, finely tuned universe points to some kind of rational cause or force.

Mathematics is not the Universe. The Universe isn't 'tuned' or organized. The Universe is not a force.

From all the experience we have, it is implausible that matter, order, organization, and rational design popped into existence from the irrational, from purely inanimate physical causes, and from random chance.

There is only one of you, Schizo. Random words ignored.

And you have never explained why it would be rational to accept that as the best explanation.

Random words ignored. Go learn English.

 

[Into the Night]

Obscure, anonymous message board poster IBDumbass: "Neutrinos and quarks are fabrications invented by guys who want grant money!"

IBDaMann is correct here. Neutrinos and quarks are just fabrications. No one has ever seen one.

Me plus the best particle physicists in the world: "Quarks and neutrinos almost certainly exist and their properties have been measured in the world's most prestigious high energy physics laboratories."

You can't measure a quark.
You can't measure a neutrino.

 

[Into the Night]

Let me take you through some seventh grade math, because this only requires the most child-like understanding of rudimentary algebra.

Energy and mass are related by Einstein's formula, therefore energy can always be converted to mass equivalent.

Because we know E = mc^2, it therefore follows that m = E/c^2.

Then, it follows that the masses of quarks can be reported as electron volt mass equivalents by just dividing GeV by c-squared.

Unit error. Mass is not measured in volts.
Voltage is not energy...another unit error.

 

[Into the Night]

Belief is just a way of saying I don't know something with 100% certainty, but there's enough evidence that I'm willing to say it's what I "believe". I don't believe, based on available evidence/information, that Trump was the rightful winner of the 2020 election.

There was no 2020 election. The 2020 election faulted due to election fraud by Democrats.

Faith, means you believe something despite the evidence or lack of evidence.

Redefinition fallacy. The Argument of Faith is the same as a circular argument. They are synonyms.
You cannot make any evidence just disappear.

God of the Chasms doesn't sound as cool, but means the same thing.

That doesn't mean you have to plug in extraterrestrial beings as answer.

Random phrases ignored.

The existed in a much different time. A time when filling in gaps with gods was very common. They were much more informed than the ancient Hebrews, but not remotely close to as knowledgeable as their equivalents are today.

God hasn't gone anywhere, Void. He still exists. He still controls his creation to this day.

You entire presentation was circumstantial evidence for gods. You don't believe the "organized" universe could happen naturally, so God must have done it, etc, etc, etc.

The Universe is unorganized.