Honest question for Confederate flag lovers: Why are you so proud of losing?

the nazi swastika is just a symbol of german pride in their fatherland. The german region and culture went back centuries, and the swastika is just a symbol of embracing those long held traditions and culture. The fact that some people that carried the swastika flag wanted to murder jews HAS nothing to do with anything.
 
Senator Jeff Davis's lifes work was dedicated to perserving the Slave based economy and social structure. He made many efforts to perserve it including an all out effort to bring Cuba into the Union as a slave state, in an effort to give the "Southern" (read that "Slave") states more power. While the North had slaves, the culture, economy and social structure was not based on the cast system that the Sourthern States based their culture and economy on.
 
Skeleton Jelly said:
the nazi swastika is just a symbol of german pride in their fatherland. The german region and culture went back centuries, and the swastika is just a symbol of embracing those long held traditions and culture. The fact that some people that carried the swastika flag wanted to murder jews HAS nothing to do with anything.
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So then wave your swastika that was handed down by your granddaddy. I don't care
 
And once again, the Confederate Flag wavers just love to point out that slavery wasn't the main issue to them....it was just a side bar to be dealt with eventually.

Which must've just warmed the hearts of all those black folks.

And yes, the Northern States hypocrisy about slavery was evident as some northern state residents were in the slave trade, some owned slaves.

But,

Slavery was NOT a major cornerstone of Northern states economy. So when it came time to end, INDIVIDUALS suffered a financial loss, NOT entire regions or states.

The mere fact that you have people a century or so later STILL trying to justify owning slaves and fighting for that "right" by the schizoid attitude that the Confederacy was a separate from the slave trade is pathetic.

Insipid stubborness and intellectual cowardess are the watchwords for Confederate Flag defenders.
 
Skeleton Jelly said:
The confederate flag may as well be a white surrender flag. It's the symbol of getting your asses royally kicked by the north. And yet you tattoo it on yourselves, or put in the rear window of your pick up truck. Why are you so fixated on being losers? Are you gluttons for punishment? Do you like constantly reminding yourselves of how your ancestors/relatives chose the wrong side? Why are you so eager to ally yourself with team failure?
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An interesting question.....
Other than the Nazi swastika flag, I know of no one that has abandoned their flag because of losing a war.....
Can you name some ?
 
Jarod said:
It is very telling where your alegence and hart is when you call the USA, "your" government instead of "our" government.

That being said, what you wrote is mostly true, althought the issue was property rights, for the most part that property was Human Beings. To the South, the right to own a human being was more important than remaining a part of the USA. There are some issues where individual rights, such as certian forms of property rights are more important than a squable over whether we were a Federation of States or a Confederaton of States.

The United States in 1862 had outgrown a Constitution that allowed for ownership of certian classes of people, that is all of the United States save the South. We had to fight a war over the issue, and won... then we changed the constitution to fit the nation that was born after Lee surrendered.
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Well I am intentionally using "your" because the person I am addressing has made this "mine vs. yours" in the OP. The point being, it was not the CSA who ruled slaves were property and not human beings. It was not the CSA who upheld this institution for 86 years before the CSA even existed. It was not Confederate Congress' and Presidents who passed this issue off and didn't deal with it. It was not Southern people alone who condoned and enabled the institution of slavery. To try and retrospectively make this the case, is dishonest and I won't stand for it.

The issue was about federal power over the states, specifically with regard to property ownership, which the US agreed that slaves were, up until the passage of the 13th and 14th Amendments to the Constitution, which happened AFTER the CW. It is horrible and abhorrent that our ancestors once considered black people to be 'property' and not human beings, and there were certainly people in 1861 who shared our modern viewpoints, but the overwhelming majority of people, did not honestly believe that black races were "equal" in any way, to white European races. That's just a fact of life and how things were in 1861, with few exceptions. If we ever expect to deal with racial relations, we have to begin by being completely honest about this, and not hiding behind a scapegoat, which is what you want to make "The South" out to be.
 
Skeleton Jelly said:
it has as little to do with race as the nazi swastika has to do with killing jews. your cognitive dissonance is off the charts.
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Every time I hear some one preaching "States Rights" it has always....ALWAYS been when someone has been trying to rationalize an opposition to the expansion of personal liberties.
 
Dixie said:
Well I am intentionally using "your" because the person I am addressing has made this "mine vs. yours" in the OP. The point being, it was not the CSA who ruled slaves were property and not human beings. It was not the CSA who upheld this institution for 86 years before the CSA even existed. It was not Confederate Congress' and Presidents who passed this issue off and didn't deal with it. It was not Southern people alone who condoned and enabled the institution of slavery. To try and retrospectively make this the case, is dishonest and I won't stand for it.

The issue was about federal power over the states, specifically with regard to property ownership, which the US agreed that slaves were, up until the passage of the 13th and 14th Amendments to the Constitution, which happened AFTER the CW. It is horrible and abhorrent that our ancestors once considered black people to be 'property' and not human beings, and there were certainly people in 1861 who shared our modern viewpoints, but the overwhelming majority of people, did not honestly believe that black races were "equal" in any way, to white European races. That's just a fact of life and how things were in 1861, with few exceptions. If we ever expect to deal with racial relations, we have to begin by being completely honest about this, and not hiding behind a scapegoat, which is what you want to make "The South" out to be.
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We are making progress, years ago when we had this discussion you held tight to your comment that NOBODY prior to the civil war belived black people should have civil rights.

When you say property rights, that is code for rights to own slaves. Its like saying we started the Iraq war due to issues of Iraq's right to arm itself, but it was really about WMD. You are simply trying to take the specific and move it out to a general until it sounds acceptable by todays standards. It was about property rights, specifically, the right to own people as property!

Sure the North was complicit for a while, and it would likely have been a much more gradual abolition of slavery had the Sourth not succeded, but it was happening one way or the other and the North was leading the way. The South was not the totality of the problem, the South was just the area of the country willing to have a war over to retain the cast system. It was not simply the economics of property btw, there was the entire issue of the socially conservative principal the South was fighting to restore the tradition of the social order that was in place, many, if not most, including Davis, belived black people to be inferrior and that they should be excluded from any form of power. Sure some in the North agreed, but not most of the educated leaders.

Remember people from Alabama come from the heart of the group still trying to grasp to the "old ways" and shouting tradition as an excuse for not allowing freedom to Gays, just like they fought to keep black people from the University of Alabama 50 years ago, just like they fought to keep interracial marriage illegal, just like they fight to keep women who have children at home. This is the Heart of Social conservatism. Now before you start screaming about some social conservative you studied from New York City or Chicago or Boston... I am sure some are from all over the nation, but the BULK are from the South, and the heart of the South is ALABAMA! The Heart of Dixie.
 
OK...quick end to this....

Southern boys....Who held the economic and political power in the South?

SLAVE OWNERS.

And as far as this nonsense of the Northern States being responsible for keeping slavery alive? Let me guess....The Southern States had no vote in Congress back then? It was all the North.

Lastly....it's amazing how little things change. Back then you "poor dirt farmers" knelt down to your plantation owning masters who made the rules, and you still do today...except your masters are now multinational conglomerates.

Sadly, many Northern people embrace the neo-slavery too.!
 
Threedee said:
Terms of surrender, as opposed to burning the entire shithole down. That was your restitution.
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DamnYankee said:
I'd like to see documentation of that.
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Reparations for what? Having to live in a hot, smelly climate with fat women, fatter men who inbreed and make even fatter kids with a combined IQ of 10?

Skeleton Jelly said:
it has as little to do with race as the nazi swastika has to do with killing jews. your cognitive dissonance is off the charts.
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It's amazing that even today the racists consider blacks "property". In the eyes of my God, obviously not theirs, no man is another man's "property".

On the lighter side, did I tell y'all about our black maid Lily White and our Aleut maid Little Penny?
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Mwahahahaha! I'm not lauging at you, I'm laughing at the thought of civility in JPP.

Hey welcome to the board and I do mean that sincerely and there are times when people can have informed and intelligent conversation here and I do appreciate your attempt at civility.

Having said that, it's not the reality here....lots of good threads to chew the fat on but you'd better have a thick skin. :)
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I see what you mean.

This board oozes that liberal tolerance and open mindedness that I have heard so much about
 
It is so sad to see people pull the Nazi card out.

It diminishes what the Nazi's did. They killed 50 million people and turned half the Earth into graveyard

They were able to murder on an industrial level

Now people who are desperate to score cheap political points, compare people who have a different opinion, to people who walked the Earth without a heart

It is very sad to see
 
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